Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

Wonky front end? #1 find some springs that are about 25% stiffer. Don't really know how you would do that, seeing as how I doubt you can look up the originals anywhere. However I remember from High School psychics class all you need to measure a spring constant is a scale, a ruler and a way to compress the spring. If you don't have a Harbor Freight press, I do (and live near by). My bathroom scale goes up to 300lbs, I doubt the Snipe has springs rated at more than 300lbs per 1/2 inch (or 600lbs per inch). Spring constant are easy, they are all linear. Find the spring rate and diameter/length and I bet we can get some junk yard springs that stiffen up the front end from at least yacht to speed boat handling.

The rear end is easier. Add lowering blocks and a set of helper springs to the front of the leaf. Not only will it stiffen it up, it will prevent the springs from winding up when you apply your newly found power to the wheels. Available cheap at any Pep Boys

Constructor/Owner/Driver - Billy Beer Ford Futura

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

tennis balls would stiffen that crappy front end a little firmer
http://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/viewtopic.php?id=5426

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

Coil spring rate calculator:

http://www.stockcarproducts.com/pstech10.htm

Wire diameter = duh, the diameter of the steel coil. That needs to be pretty accurate as .010 can have a big effect on the stiffness, best is to measure with a digital caliper.

Spring diameter is, duh, the spring diameter. big_smile

Active coils are the number of coils that are not touching the mount points, the part that is touching is a 'dead' coil. On most springs, that's ~3/4 coil per end, x 2 = 1 1/2 coils. So if you count a total of 10 coils including the ends, then 10 total coils  - 1.5 dead coils = 8.5 active coils. That measurement's not as critical as the wire diameter, in fact on many springs it will change as the spring compresses/extends.

On cutting springs: as a rough rule of thumb the percentage you cut off of a spring's length will stiffen the spring by the same amount. For instance, if you have a 100 inch pound spring and you cut 10% of it off, the remaining spring is now 110 inch pounds. Cutting a spring does NOT soften it!

Recently someone on here posted a link to an online spring catalog for all kids of cars. It had diameters, lengths, spring rates, you name it. It made it easy to go junkyarding for springs, you looked for a car that had the rate etc you were looking for then found that car in the boneyard and paid $2 each for springs. smile

If you really want to get fancy, you can compute the 'wheel rate' for a given spring. The spring is mounted inboard of the wheel, this means the control arm acts as a lever and lowers the actual spring rate the wheel 'sees'. Calculation:  Measure the distance from the center of the inner lower pivot of the lower control arm to the center of the outer pivot of the knuckle (or center of the ball joint, if it uses that). Now measure from the center of the inner pivot to the center of the spring mount. These need to be pretty accurate measurements; an error of 1/8" is not a big deal but 1/2" can throw the calculations off pretty bad.

Divide the second (smaller) measurement by the first (longer) measurement, this will be a decimal. Example: 12" long control arm, 8" to center of the spring. 8 divided by 12 = .667. Square this, i.e. .667 x .667 = .445. That's your multiplier. Now if you have, say, a 600 inch pound spring you take that number and multiply it by .445. Ex: 600 x .445 = 267 inch pounds wheel rate.

On that big old beast, I'd try to go up somewhere between 30 and 50% on the wheel rate.

Philosophy of life: old age and treachery will ALWAYS overcome youth, enthusiasm and cash. General smartass know it all beer swilling ne'er do well. Avoid eye contact with this person, best avoided completely. 2008 Animal House Racing CMP 'Most Likely To Leave In An Ambulance' 2009 Blind Rodent Racing CMP 2010 Team Galileo CMP 2011 Roundhouse Kick Racing CMP 2012 Road Kill Grill Racing CMP (x2)

204 (edited by Brett85p 2012-07-08 07:38 AM)

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

I recently purchased a valve spring tester (0-300) pounds to sort out the best of 4 sets of valve springs I have and it occurred to me when I set it up in the drill press that with a bigger base and a press it would double up as a coil spring tester.
So I was kicking myself for getting the 0-300 when I should have gone with the 0- 600.
http://i45.tinypic.com/vxnl07.jpg
These run at around $70 but then you can charge dirt track guys $5 a time to check their springs smile

Apocalyptic Racing - Occupy Pit Lane racing
Racing the "Toylet" Toyota Celica powered by Chevrolet Ecotec.
24x Loser with the Celica. 16x loser in other fine machines
Overall winner Gingerman 2019

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

Well,I just had to register after reading your posts regarding the calipers (early ATE (Alfred Teves and company ) calipers from most W108 Mercedes fit (250S,SE and 280S  1966-71) are the same as the Girling 17/3  (the number3 means version 3 , you could get 17/1 through 17/4 )   3 piston calipers ,

but to this topic ..I was born in new Zealand and lived there until 1980  so i had a few experiences with Humber Hawks and Supersnipes and even wrecked a Humber imperial.
The American market cars had mostly automatics but everywhere else they were manual 4 speeds. The 4 speed was a  giant version of the hillman minx,humber 80 four speed and lay on it's side in the tunnel.
How do i know all this interesting info?
We used to bolt them up behind V8's as real American 4 speed trannys were both rare and hideously expensive in the late 60's early 70's in NZ. Plus, they are indestructible... made with incredibly high quality nickle steel gears . One engine we built was 332 Ford FE with twin turbos  (from some sort of aeroplane...) which smashed up a 9inch rear end but the box lived on without a problem. There is no floor change so we had to devise a system ourselves.
The earlier Supersnipes were 3 liter but the rootes group built trucks too under the commer name mostly ( i have seen a Desoto truck ,a commer with lots of chrome) with the famous TS3 diesel but  i was employed once by a firm who had petrol engined Commers, powered  by a 5 liter version of your engine .identical outside but a lot bigger inside ...a LOT bigger! .
I had forgotten they made a single carb version of the 3 liter because most i worked on had twin carbs.
So...you need a fourspeed with a Commer truck engine and twin carbs to some horsepressure together ..
Down here in OZ,it's simply a matter of asking humber owners for the parts but in the USA i guess it's hunting time.
This Rod Hadfeilds HAMB drgster with the 5 liter truck engine and humber snipe four speed.and triple side drafts.
http://www.hot-rod.com.au/hambster/completed/hambster11.jpg
http://www.commer.org.nz/Commer_Connections/VA.html

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

Ron B. wrote:

http://www.hot-rod.com.au/hambster/completed/hambster11.jpg

Sweet cage!

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

I think I'd rather have both arms inside the cage, so if the car flipped I could keep them.

Looks like Alan needs to plan a vacation to New Zealand with a great big empty steamer trunk.

Constructor/Owner/Driver - Billy Beer Ford Futura

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

Seems to be a few of us crazy kiwis here on the boards and in Lemons racing. Maybe we could help in sourcing the hard to get parts through our families back there.
my folks are flying out here in December. Shouldn't be too hard to convince dad to bring some parts with him. Or source and ship stuff.
I know of 2 teams in Calif with NZ roots too.
Let us know if we can be of any help.

AJ.

12. Gingerman , Heroic Fix award
10/12 Autobahn, 51st overall.
Team Apocalyptic Racing
1978 Ecotec Celica.

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

Yes a lot Kiwis in the USA, including a lot of my cousins . One of my olod friends from my youth is Kevin Perry who is known as KiwiKev ,in Ventura. Mostly famous for his adventures with old time Willys Dragsters.. There are more kiwis outside NZ than there are in the country I think  eh.

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

Alan.... you need to preserve thatr wagon or get a sponsor ha ha
http://www.Classiclimousinesalesinc.com … june_2.cfm

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

crazyideas wrote:
Ron B. wrote:

http://www.hot-rod.com.au/hambster/completed/hambster11.jpg

Sweet cage!

Lovin' the car but arm through the cage... uh, not so much.

CowDriver, we need more cowbell, er, update. I was thinking the other day about your spring predicament; the NA$CAR  boys use those thick urethane spacers in the springs to add stiffness (not to be confused with preload).
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LNG-61170/?rtype=10

Might be easier/cheaper than going on a Snipe spring hunt.

Philosophy of life: old age and treachery will ALWAYS overcome youth, enthusiasm and cash. General smartass know it all beer swilling ne'er do well. Avoid eye contact with this person, best avoided completely. 2008 Animal House Racing CMP 'Most Likely To Leave In An Ambulance' 2009 Blind Rodent Racing CMP 2010 Team Galileo CMP 2011 Roundhouse Kick Racing CMP 2012 Road Kill Grill Racing CMP (x2)

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

Junkyard Dog wrote:
crazyideas wrote:

Sweet cage!

Lovin' the car but arm through the cage... uh, not so much.

CowDriver, we need more cowbell, er, update. I was thinking the other day about your spring predicament; the NA$CAR  boys use those thick urethane spacers in the springs to add stiffness (not to be confused with preload).
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LNG-61170/?rtype=10

Might be easier/cheaper than going on a Snipe spring hunt.

I used the cheaper easier to find rubber spring donuts on the Futura after cutting 1/2 a coil too much off the front and ruining 1 set of struts when they bottomed out.

Constructor/Owner/Driver - Billy Beer Ford Futura

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

As an Englishman I couldn't believe what you went through to get that magnificent example of British craftsmanship up and running let alone race it! I tip my bowler hat to you sir. Somebody over here does race (loose term there) a Super Snipe in a series for pre-60 saloons but being heavy and not exactly highly tuned it gets passed quite regularly. Still they are having fun much like your good self. I would have loved to see it racing but I'm not in California although my 59 Impala did used to reside there, lol. Plus despite being English I have to admit that that I've only ever owned one Rootes Group vehicle, a 1960 Hillman Minx that i purchased for the grand sum of £7 back in the 1970s with the grand plan to race it in what we call 'banger racing' , in other words to wreck it. Sadly a lack of skill and amenities put paid to that ambition. I wish you good luck with the old girl though and as we say over here 'Keep calm and carry on'.

Paul

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

After the Buttonwillow race, I felt rather burned out and took several weeks off to do anything but car stuff.   But after a gentle prod from Lemons HQ today, it's time to finish up this series...

Episode 23: The Home Stretch

With the engine back together, it was time to stuff it back in the car and see how it ran.   It was now June 9th -- just a few short weeks left before the Buttonwillow race.

Richard came over with his pickup truck and hauled it the 30 miles to Bernie's yard, then stuck around while I attached the torque converter & bell housing, then helped me hoist the engine into the car.   By that time it was noon and he had to leave. We agreed to meet the next morning to install the transmission, while I worked on finishing the engine installation.   You wouldn't think that it would take very long, but there are a log of little things to do!

Sunday morning at 9:00 AM, Richard showed up again and we soon had the car up on the hoist in Bernie's well-equipped shop. With the experience gained from the previous transmission swap back in November, we had the entire job done and the car back outside by noon.   There were still a ton of little things that had to be connected, which I spent the rest of the day doing.

The next evening it was ready to test.   I thought things were going really well.   I tested the compression and got the following (with oiled cylinder walls):

Cyl  psi
1 - 135
2 - 135
3 - 145
4 - 152
5 - 140
6 - 150

Looking good!

I checked the point gap and double-checked the static timing. I also double-checked the firing order, which perfectly lined up with the lengths of spark plug wire.

But when I went to start it, it coughed and backfired, but would not start.   Clearly something was wrong with the timing. I was certain the problem was not with the valve timing, given the compression readings.   It was 7:30pm and I was tired from a bad day at work, so I gave up for the evening.   What could be wrong?

At work the next day, little was accomplished as I exchanged emails with friends, trying to figure out what had gone wrong. The consensus was that I had the distributor 180 degrees off. I convinced Richard to help me that evening.   My instructions to him were to question every assumption and statement that I made.   If I said the sky was blue, he should make me prove it.

We quickly checked the distributor and it was correctly oriented.   Was the valve timing so bad that it wouldn't run?   A quick test proved that it was close enough, if not perfect.   We checked the firing order.   It was correct.   The point gap and dwell were within spec.   Then it hit me: the spark plug wires were in the correct order, but only if the distributor were rotating backwards!   It took only a minute to correct my blunder and the engine started and ran smoothly.   An entire work session wasted because of a simple error!

The plan now was to drive the car home so I wouldn't have to waste 90 minutes each evening fighting rush hour traffic traffic. All remaining work could be done in my driveway.   But only one headlight was working and I still hadn't made any test drives.   Another day's delay.

The next evening was devoted to test drives up & down the street and fixing minor problems.   But it seemed to be running worse with each test.   Finally it simply wouldn't run at all, and I had to push it back into the lot.   It wasn't getting any fuel. Twenty years of crud in the gas tank had finally totally plugged the gas line.   With Bernie out of town, I didn't have access to his shop with compressed air, so I couldn't blow it out, and that would only be a temporary fix.

We decided that it were to be ready in time for Buttonwillow, the car needed to be in my driveway at home.   It was now Friday, so bright & early the next morning I called AAA and asked for a tow home.   It was certainly entertaining for the AAA operator when she asked what kind of car I had!   smile

Back home, I dropped the gas tank and discovered that emptying it via the drain plug still left almost a gallon in the tank. I won't dignify it by calling it gas -- it was a horrible orange semi-fluid with lots of slime and solids in it.

A radiator shop 15 miles away advertised that they repaired gas tanks, and they would be open for another hour.   Off I went!

The place turned out to be a snapshot out of time.   The owner's father had built it in 1938, and little had changed since then. You could not get permits today to operate it in Los Angeles county.   It wasn't just grandfathered in, it was great-grandfathered!   There were antiques everywhere, both outside and inside the shop.

http://www.nelsonusa.com/alan/snipe/IMG_1409a.JPG

http://www.nelsonusa.com/alan/snipe/IMG_1398a.JPG

http://www.nelsonusa.com/alan/snipe/IMG_1406a.JPG


The owner was a real character too, looking like Santa Claus and telling the funniest stories.   For an unassuming little shop, he had some high-end clients.   He showed me radiators he was working on for Jay Leno and for the Nethercutt Collection.

He dumped my gas tank into a vat of vile chemicals he said were a close cousin of Easy-Off oven cleaner and told me to come back on Sunday afternoon.

When I returned the next day, he showed me the tank and told me the bad news: removing the crud has exposed a mass of pinhole leaks in the very bottom of the tank.   It would have to be soldered before it would hold gas.   For whatever reason, perhaps because I told him good stories about Lemons racing, or was paying him in cash, he agreed to move it ahead of other jobs and have it done in two days.   Meanwhile, I could continue work on the ever-growing list of tasks.

I was keeping a list of to-do tasks on the computer, printing it at the start of every work session, after adding my hand written notes from the previous day.   The list kept getting longer rather than shorter.   To keep up my moral, I moved each item to a "done" list as I completed each one.   By the day I left for the track, that list filled an entire page, but the to-do section had finally shrunk to just a few lines.

The gas tank repairs looked good, but the solder didn't completely fill one hole.   Rather than take it out of the car and have it re-soldered, I opted for a quick fix with JB Weld. What would we do without that stuff?

The car now started and ran again.   But little did I know that some of the crud had gotten past the filters and would cause us no end of grief at the track.

By now I was racing home every day after work, changing clothes, and working until late in the evening.   Every lunch hour was spent running errands to auto and hardware stores -- bolts, fiber washers, hoses, filters and electrical connectors.   Would I be done in time?

Next: Off To The Races!

"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!"
IOE winner in the Super Snipe -- Buttonwillow 2012
IOE winner in Super Snipe v2.0 -- Buttonwillow 2016
"Every Super Snipe in Lemons has won an IOE!"

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

Bump.  Want to hear the rest.

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

Pyrowrx wrote:

Bump.  Want to hear the rest.

My computer at home bit the dust, so there will be a slight delay as I build a new one.   sad   For the time being, I have to do this from work.

With luck, I'll be able to recover all the photos from the disk drive.   Without, I'll have to find all the camera memory chips I saved (like finding tools in the garage).

"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!"
IOE winner in the Super Snipe -- Buttonwillow 2012
IOE winner in Super Snipe v2.0 -- Buttonwillow 2016
"Every Super Snipe in Lemons has won an IOE!"

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

By the way Allen, Clay Smith Cams will still reground old cams for more duration lift out in Buena Park. I think Iskedarian still does it too. All you have to do is bring them the cam out of the motor you aren't using, they can determine what the factory numbers were and grind it for more power.

Are you going to Vodden to spectate? If not you should stop by my place one of these days and I can show you how I made a 2bbl manifold out of the 1bbl on my motor.

Constructor/Owner/Driver - Billy Beer Ford Futura

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K88Nw_oyHVs



Thought of you when watching this on tv.

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

Going through the brake dilemma on my super snipe project now.   Managed to rebuild my type 17 calipers but found out my discs are scrap. Any clever ideas on replacement rotors or ones that could be drilled to fit?

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

abucketofwater wrote:

Going through the brake dilemma on my super snipe project now.
Managed to rebuild my type 17 calipers but found out my discs are scrap. Any clever
ideas on replacement rotors or ones that could be drilled to fit?

Oh god, not another Super Snipe!   smile   Just kidding, I welcome anyone who is as
crazy as me.

To answer your question, I have no ideas on replacement rotors and it worries me.
If you ever find a suitable replacement, please let me know.

Since my 1959 (actually 1960 Series II) Super Snipe was destroyed in the roll-over crash
at Chuckwalla, I am using the (former) parts car to build a new & improved Super Snipe.
It is a 1964 Series III or IV (I find evidence of both).   Aside from the dual versus quad
headlights, it looks identical.

I stripped the interior last week, so if you need any miscellaneous parts please let me
know immediately before they go into the trash bin.

"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!"
IOE winner in the Super Snipe -- Buttonwillow 2012
IOE winner in Super Snipe v2.0 -- Buttonwillow 2016
"Every Super Snipe in Lemons has won an IOE!"

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

abucketofwater wrote:

Going through the brake dilemma on my super snipe project now.   Managed to rebuild my type 17 calipers but found out my discs are scrap. Any clever ideas on replacement rotors or ones that could be drilled to fit?

I remember when Allen started this thread the Snipe uses a common American car bolt pattern on the wheels. Something like 5 x 5" or something. It was used on a ton of GM full sized cars, trucks and some years of Chevy Astro van. Best bet may be to take some measurements and go prowling around a self serve junk yard.

Constructor/Owner/Driver - Billy Beer Ford Futura

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

Parkwod60 wrote:
abucketofwater wrote:

Going through the brake dilemma on my super snipe project now.
Managed to rebuild my type 17 calipers but found out my discs are scrap. Any clever
ideas on replacement rotors or ones that could be drilled to fit?

I remember when Alan started this thread the Snipe uses a common American car bolt
pattern on the wheels. Something like 5 x 5" or something. It was used on a ton of GM
full sized cars, trucks and some years of Chevy Astro van. Best bet may be to take
some measurements and go prowling around a self serve junk yard.

The bolt pattern is 5 x 5", but the problem is the "hat" dimensions.   Since my
rotors are still OK, I have not done any more research.   I glanced at the Wilwood
catalog the other day, and I see that they have hats and rotors.   Perhaps one of
them might work.


And in today's news, I started on the cage for the new Super Snipe.   The main hoop
is bent and ready to trim.   Thanks to Spank for the loan of his tubing bender.

"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!"
IOE winner in the Super Snipe -- Buttonwillow 2012
IOE winner in Super Snipe v2.0 -- Buttonwillow 2016
"Every Super Snipe in Lemons has won an IOE!"

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

Hi
Love the story so far!

You asked in an earlier post about the 'POS' on the engine.

POS = Power Operated Steering
BW = Borg Warner Automatic Gearbox
LUX = L - Left Hand Drive, U - Estate, X - Non Standard USA

David Clark
Webmaster Post Vintage Humber Car Club UK

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

I have owned a Series 2 Estate car for over 30 years.

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

http://s11.imagestime.com/out.php/i1011151_Snipe2.jpg

Hope yours will look like this one day!

David