The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Lemons Tech → Top Things That Fail Tech?
Is there a list of items that most noobs do to fail tech?
We've gone over the tech sheet detail by detail, but feel like there's always something that we're not going to see because of inexperience!
Any advice appreciated!
Jed
Something that isn't explicitly stated in the rules (or that we missed) was that your driver's seat has to be very solid. For example, they were making people weld the reclining mechanisms on other seats. This is for two reasons:
1) As you tighten the harnesses, the seat will just keep getting pulled back by the tension and you may never be able to get the harness sufficiently tight.
2) If the seat swung backwards during a crash, the harness could loosen around the driver and be less effective at restraining him/her.
We didn't drain our coolant properly and had to flush it before the race.
Our sunroof had to be taped up, even though we had the OEM panel.
Make sure the welds on the roof side of your rollcage are welded all the way around.
+1 on seat issues. It has to be solid and unless it is FIA, has to have a "seat back brace" to something solid.
General welding problems of safety equipment...
Your electrical cutoff switch is wired incorrectly.
Seat belts that are threaded/attached incorrectly.
Cages that are not up to spec - doorbar, cross bracing, etc. And I'll tell you now that about half of the ones that pass - I'd have second thoughts about risking my life to.
+1 for make sure the welds on the roof side of your rollcage are welded all the way around.
We had done our best on the roll cage but still missed the top of the cage. We had to cut open the top of the roof on each sie like a sardine can to fix it.
i've heard that having the battery properly anchored(this mostly applies to in-cabin batteries a la BMW) and proper anchoring/location of the fire extinguisher are big ones. I've heard a lot about the seat ordeals people go through. we have a seat out of a mazda that meets the height requirement, and the recliner locking mechanism is VERY VERY good. i think there's some people with FIA seats that flex more.
Seat/seat brace failures are pretty common. I've seen quite a few fuel tank/filler failures as well.
+1 on seat issues. It has to be solid and unless it is FIA, has to have a "seat back brace" to something solid.
Whoa there cowboy. Seat back braces (aka spine impalers) aren't even mentioned in the rules, and SFI and FIA aren't required, just encouraged.
3.2: Driver's Seat: Driver's seatback must reach above middle of helmet or higher. One-piece SFI- or FIA-rated competition seats very strongly encouraged.
We've never had a problem with tech. However, I've seen some cars that passed tech that I didn't think should have.
Our seat back is not currently supported but probably should be. We run a 16" Kirkey Pro Drag seat now. It's easier to get into and more comfortable than the Intermediate for different sized drivers. Ironically, it's almost identical to the Ultra Shield Spec Miata Seat. Point I am getting at is not only is your seat there for your safety, comfort will also reduce fatigue and improve your alertness which makes you better and safer driver.
The tech list is fairly straight forward and easy enough to follow.
Make sure your kill switch works!!!
Regarding roll cage welds. One reason our cage goes through the floor is to be able to weld the tops of the tubes all the way around. We tacked the stuff in place than dropped the cage through the floor. Once the welds were done, we pushed the cage up into place and welded the bottom. My friend's future 240SX SCCA car does not actually have full welds on top of the bars by the roof. They are gusseted and that's is supposed to be okay.
Make sure you use the correct roll cage padding and not soft pipe insulation. That isn't supposed to pass tech.
The tech inspection is there to check to see that your chances of death or injury to yourself and the cars around you are reduced as much as possible. If something looks unsafe to you, like racing with a bunch of other idiots in dilapidated piles o' crap, it probably is. So do what you need to to make your car as safe as you can.
RobL wrote:+1 on seat issues. It has to be solid and unless it is FIA, has to have a "seat back brace" to something solid.
Whoa there cowboy. Seat back braces (aka spine impalers) aren't even mentioned in the rules, and SFI and FIA aren't required, just encouraged.
the Lemons rules wrote:3.2: Driver's Seat: Driver's seatback must reach above middle of helmet or higher. One-piece SFI- or FIA-rated competition seats very strongly encouraged.
Personal experience at tech trumps quoting the rules. You can't just go up there with a piece of cardboard duct taped together and call it a seat.
1) Seats are critical, especially after the incident at AMP last year.
2) Seat belts -- make sure that you have spacers on the bolt so the webbing is not pinched against the coachwork. This will chafe and cut the webbing.
3) Drivers gear.
4) Cage welding, cage padding (not HVAC stuff)
Everything else is fairly negotiable or easily fixable at the track.
Thanks for all the replies. These topics have been the ones I have been most worried about since, well, we are driving a beater.
The roll cage issue has been one floating around in my mind...about getting the top welds done correctly. To avoid cutting the floor I think we'll open access holes and then weld them closed after completing the top welds.
On another topic, is it ok to weld in protection for the radiator? We have room inside the body to put some protection in. I was wondering if this might be considered too much nerf barring, but then I did think it would be "inside"...?
I too was wondering about front end protection. This will be our first race so I haven't seen any Lemons cars in person. Many of the photos I've seen (especially from '07) show front end protection "devices". What's legal and what is not in this regard? Can we use something other than the original grille to protect the radiator? If so, what is allowed? Can I use wire mesh, welded steel chain link fence? Our vehicle has factory optional bumper guards that are pretty flimsy but they're better than nothing I suppose. Thanks for any input.
If it fits within (that means inside) the original bodywork profile, without protruding (that means going outside) the bodywork, it's legal.
So, that means, bolt on a full Aussie roo-bar to the front, add a welded-on section from your roll-cage that extends beyond the rear bumper -- including spikes -- and make sure that all fenders have reinforced sub-frames that integrate the roo-bar and spike frame.
If you're at Reno, come and talk to me if you want to learn a little about this subject...
John
I too was wondering about front end protection. This will be our first race so I haven't seen any Lemons cars in person. Many of the photos I've seen (especially from '07) show front end protection "devices". What's legal and what is not in this regard? Can we use something other than the original grille to protect the radiator? If so, what is allowed? Can I use wire mesh, welded steel chain link fence? Our vehicle has factory optional bumper guards that are pretty flimsy but they're better than nothing I suppose. Thanks for any input.
As long as you don't have anything extending beyond the original body lines of the car, you're pretty much OK. Safety hazards (Mad Max-style spikes, etc) aren't allowed. Wire mesh, chain link, etc, is OK as long as it's within the original body lines (and not unsafe). You can't replace the stock bumpers with railroad ties or wrap-around steel bars, nor can you replace the bumper guards with pig-iron stanchions.
The best approach to this is: when in doubt, email Jay and ask him his opinion (preferably more than 17 minutes before the tech inspection).
I too was wondering about front end protection. This will be our first race so I haven't seen any Lemons cars in person. Many of the photos I've seen (especially from '07) show front end protection "devices". What's legal and what is not in this regard? Can we use something other than the original grille to protect the radiator? If so, what is allowed? Can I use wire mesh, welded steel chain link fence? Our vehicle has factory optional bumper guards that are pretty flimsy but they're better than nothing I suppose. Thanks for any input.
We have two big bars welded in front of the radiator but behind the grille and covered in chicken wire for this reason. As others have said, as long as it's behind the original body lines, you're golden.
maassauto wrote:I too was wondering about front end protection. This will be our first race so I haven't seen any Lemons cars in person. Many of the photos I've seen (especially from '07) show front end protection "devices". What's legal and what is not in this regard? Can we use something other than the original grille to protect the radiator? If so, what is allowed? Can I use wire mesh, welded steel chain link fence? Our vehicle has factory optional bumper guards that are pretty flimsy but they're better than nothing I suppose. Thanks for any input.
We have two big bars welded in front of the radiator but behind the grille and covered in chicken wire for this reason. As others have said, as long as it's behind the original body lines, you're golden.
We have the same setup. We moved the radiator from it's original position into the Frunk of our MR2, so we needed some extra protection.
Personal experience at tech trumps quoting the rules. You can't just go up there with a piece of cardboard duct taped together and call it a seat.
Yes yes. My point was that a one piece racing shell mounted firmly is fine, FIA/SFI cert or not.
If it fits within (that means inside) the original bodywork profile, without protruding (that means going outside) the bodywork, it's legal.
So, that means, bolt on a full Aussie roo-bar to the front, add a welded-on section from your roll-cage that extends beyond the rear bumper -- including spikes -- and make sure that all fenders have reinforced sub-frames that integrate the roo-bar and spike frame.
If you're at Reno, come and talk to me if you want to learn a little about this subject...
John
Hey Boss-
What are you planning on smashing into? Sure does slow a guy down that crashing into the other car, then getting black flagged and all.
If you are beefing your car up for contact you may need to take a second look at your driving style. I'm just sayin'...
professional.dreamer wrote:If it fits within (that means inside) the original bodywork profile, without protruding (that means going outside) the bodywork, it's legal.
So, that means, bolt on a full Aussie roo-bar to the front, add a welded-on section from your roll-cage that extends beyond the rear bumper -- including spikes -- and make sure that all fenders have reinforced sub-frames that integrate the roo-bar and spike frame.
If you're at Reno, come and talk to me if you want to learn a little about this subject...
John
Hey Boss-
What are you planning on smashing into? Sure does slow a guy down that crashing into the other car, then getting black flagged and all.
If you are beefing your car up for contact you may need to take a second look at your driving style. I'm just sayin'...
I'm more worried about 100 odd "inexperienced" drivers on a track, a little red mist on everyone's part here and there, and the range of cars that may or may not have pieces falling off that prevent them from avoiding my radiator.
Beyond that, we can't do that much to the cars, so getting to do a little extra cutting and welding is just a little more extra fun!
We got dinged for the Fire extinquisher not having metal mount .even though it in car 5 races.
Also don't forget your tech sheet and to stay with your car at all times while it tech .
Since the seatback rule has been revised, I'd like to revisit this one.
3.2: Driver's Seat: Driver's seatback must reach above middle of helmet or higher. One-piece SFI- or FIA-rated competition seats very strongly encouraged. All seats must be very securely mounted to the floor or cage to avoid separation during a crash. All seatbacks must be securely attached to the seat base and braced or otherwise restrained against rearward failure.
We've got an FIA Sparco one piece seat. Do we need a spine impaler? I would think that it being a one piece shell would restrain it against rearward failure barring the seat breaking in half...
Thanks for all of this. About to run our first race in a few days and we can use all the help we can get:-) keep it coming.
Since the seatback rule has been revised, I'd like to revisit this one.
3.2: Driver's Seat: Driver's seatback must reach above middle of helmet or higher. One-piece SFI- or FIA-rated competition seats very strongly encouraged. All seats must be very securely mounted to the floor or cage to avoid separation during a crash. All seatbacks must be securely attached to the seat base and braced or otherwise restrained against rearward failure.
We've got an FIA Sparco one piece seat. Do we need a spine impaler? I would think that it being a one piece shell would restrain it against rearward failure barring the seat breaking in half...
I think the concern is that the rusty floorpan it is mounted to might come apart in a crash, at which point it doesn't matter how strong the seat is our how well it is attached to the mount.
David Hawkins wrote:Since the seatback rule has been revised, I'd like to revisit this one.
3.2: Driver's Seat: Driver's seatback must reach above middle of helmet or higher. One-piece SFI- or FIA-rated competition seats very strongly encouraged. All seats must be very securely mounted to the floor or cage to avoid separation during a crash. All seatbacks must be securely attached to the seat base and braced or otherwise restrained against rearward failure.
We've got an FIA Sparco one piece seat. Do we need a spine impaler? I would think that it being a one piece shell would restrain it against rearward failure barring the seat breaking in half...
I think the concern is that the rusty floorpan it is mounted to might come apart in a crash, at which point it doesn't matter how strong the seat is our how well it is attached to the mount.
Sure, but if you fall through a rusty floorpan, is a seat brace really going to help you? We're mounted on factory sliders to factory seat bolt locations with a non-rusty floor pan.
I'm basically looking for a yes or no from someone in the know - does a 1 piece FIA seat require a rear brace?
Check out Nick's post (#13) here:
http://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/viewtopic.php?id=152
"The definition of "seat braces" is currently somewhat flexible--basically, you need to have some kind of support that will prevent your seat from tipping back in the event of a crash. We don't require this support to be permanently affixed to the seatback (in fact, be wary of rigging up some hokey angle-iron brace that will only serve to impale your back in a crash). In many cases, the harness bar of your roll cage will serve this purpose just fine--just make sure it's fairly close to the seat (six inches or so is ideal), and positioned high enough to prevent tipping (it should be already in a decent position to create the proper angle for your harness shoulder belts)."
It looks like a harness bar in the main hoop will serve as a "brace" for an FIA rated seat.
The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Lemons Tech → Top Things That Fail Tech?