Re: Follow the adventure

Tomorrow I'll try to get pictures of the exhaust/fuel tank layout...its a bit scary.  Scary like its a stock configuration that would probably not pass lemons tech.  There is a factory notch in the fuel tank to let the exhaust pipe run through because the clearance is so tight.  eeeep.

We can do better.

http://wartburg.misfittoysracing.com
OTTER: "I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part."
BLUTO: "We're just the guys to do it."

Re: Follow the adventure

Sorry, still owe everyone some pics of the scary gastank/exhaust relationship.

The pic with the test fit of the wheels was bugging me...I know y'all generally eschew clean and pretty around here but I cant help it, those wheels looked gross.

So a little time with some sandpaper and...

before
http://wartburg.misfittoysracing.com/images/wheelbefore.jpg

after
http://wartburg.misfittoysracing.com/images/wheelafter.jpg

http://wartburg.misfittoysracing.com
OTTER: "I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part."
BLUTO: "We're just the guys to do it."

Re: Follow the adventure

And I hate to give away the whole plan just yet but Im sure some of you can see where this is heading....and then this showed up in my driveway

http://wartburg.misfittoysracing.com/subaru/front.jpg

http://wartburg.misfittoysracing.com
OTTER: "I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part."
BLUTO: "We're just the guys to do it."

Re: Follow the adventure

haha, niiice

Proudly pissing off Pick 'n Pull employees since 1991
Team The Homer

1981 Ford Fairmont Durango

30

Re: Follow the adventure

Sweet, making it awd?

Racing 4 Nickels - 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
2011 SHOWROOM-SCHLOCK SHOOTOUT  IOE Winner
2012 The Chubba Cheddar Enduro Class C winner
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Re: Follow the adventure

BoB wrote:

Sweet, making it awd?

'fraid not, the AWD stuff isnt compatable with the por.....um poor man's suspension, yeah that's what I was gonna say.

http://wartburg.misfittoysracing.com
OTTER: "I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part."
BLUTO: "We're just the guys to do it."

32

Re: Follow the adventure

either way nice to have the boxer in there.  I remeber reading someone describe the subaru engines sound as a vw beetle under water, but in a good way.

Racing 4 Nickels - 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
2011 SHOWROOM-SCHLOCK SHOOTOUT  IOE Winner
2012 The Chubba Cheddar Enduro Class C winner
Facebook Page

Re: Follow the adventure

BoB wrote:

either way nice to have the boxer in there.  I remeber reading someone describe the subaru engines sound as a vw beetle under water, but in a good way.

They are cheap, reliable and have reasoable power levels in a small package, what's not to love smile

http://wartburg.misfittoysracing.com
OTTER: "I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part."
BLUTO: "We're just the guys to do it."

34 (edited by BoB 2009-10-29 11:28 AM)

Re: Follow the adventure

Thats why I'm driving my second one, although the current did get a turbo to add a bit more fun to it.

An extra bonus is that some people started calling boxers Porsche engine so now people believe I did a really expensive engine swap.

Racing 4 Nickels - 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
2011 SHOWROOM-SCHLOCK SHOOTOUT  IOE Winner
2012 The Chubba Cheddar Enduro Class C winner
Facebook Page

Re: Follow the adventure

Awesome. I hope that 3-banger will make its way into a pit cart or something.

Downhill seizes can be avoided by clutching and revving on the descent. Also doubles as a warning for wayward pedestrians.

Re: Follow the adventure

Nick_LeMonsHQ wrote:

Awesome. I hope that 3-banger will make its way into a pit cart or something.

Downhill seizes can be avoided by clutching and revving on the descent. Also doubles as a warning for wayward pedestrians.

Im currently looking for a golf cart with a blown motor to put the 3cyl into as a pit cart.

I found a really cool airport car the other day that would have been perfect as it had a large cargo deck on it but the price was a bit too high for my liking.

If all else fails and we have time after building the wartburg we'll just weld up a frame and make our own pit cart I guess.

http://wartburg.misfittoysracing.com
OTTER: "I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part."
BLUTO: "We're just the guys to do it."

Re: Follow the adventure

Productive weekend.  One of the other misfits stopped by.  Before he arrived I pulled the motor.  I looked at my engine hoist and decided it was too much trouble so I just picked the thing up by hand.
http://wartburg.misfittoysracing.com/images/emptybay.jpg

Then we got a little happy with the implements of destruction.  So from the old engine bay above.  To our new and improved engine bay.
http://wartburg.misfittoysracing.com/images/trunkgone.jpg

http://wartburg.misfittoysracing.com
OTTER: "I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part."
BLUTO: "We're just the guys to do it."

Re: Follow the adventure

nice!

Re: Follow the adventure

After a weekend of towing, bartering and cursing all the major components are now strewn across my, lawn/driveway/garage and we're readdy to solve a little equation.

Who's good at math?

http://wartburg.misfittoysracing.com/images/wartequation.JPG

http://wartburg.misfittoysracing.com
OTTER: "I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part."
BLUTO: "We're just the guys to do it."

Re: Follow the adventure

haha, either a 944 is in that equation for suspension components on the cheap, or maybe it's donating a transmission? either case, I get the subaru and bug references...i think.

Re: Follow the adventure

There shall be an unholy marriage of the VW rear tosion, transaxle, suspension and the center "spine" to the Wartburg frame.
The 944 front suspension is getting grafted to the front frame and the 944 rear disk brakes will be adapted to the VW trailing arms in the rear (and by adapted I mean they bolt right on, woohoo). Subie 2.2 motor strapped to the VW transaxle completes the mix.

Its an interesting note for those who havent seen the Wartburg up close to realize how small it really is that a VW bug is very similar dimensionally.  Slightly shorter in the overall wheelbase but the interior space is larger on the bug (no, really, I didnt belive it either)

http://wartburg.misfittoysracing.com
OTTER: "I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part."
BLUTO: "We're just the guys to do it."

Re: Follow the adventure

WOW. that's pretty unorthodox. were it me I'd probably do something crazy like taking the front clip from an LH car (3.5L transaxle; long-wise mounted) and rig it up to be a mid-engined setup...then again my creativity and ambition would fall flat on it's face seeing i've never done anything like that before, lol

Re: Follow the adventure

Serj wrote:

WOW. that's pretty unorthodox. were it me I'd probably do something crazy like taking the front clip from an LH car (3.5L transaxle; long-wise mounted) and rig it up to be a mid-engined setup...then again my creativity and ambition would fall flat on it's face seeing i've never done anything like that before, lol

We've gone through alot of iterations of this project.   The final determining factors were

a) what do we know best mechanically
b) what can we get cheap

Both boxes were ticked by aircooled VW and I was actually able to get a full rolling chassis with transmission for the cost of going to pick it up.

The original plan was to weld the VW front torsion to the frame for the front suspension.  But we wanted better brakes too.  A friend who is building a hell of a 944 (with an LS1) wanted a radiator I had sitting on the shelf and wanted all the unused 944 bits out of his garage so a trade was made.  These parts were supposed to go on my VW bus but I sold that to help pay for our misadventures with the Wartburg and free up some garage space.

So, 944 disks are a direct bolt on to the rear suspension of a VW, the front disks can be modified but we got to looking at those porsche a-arms and struts and the better adjustability and overall performance made more sense so we scrapped the VW front idea and are designing the strut towers.  The design of the existing wartburg shock towers makes it much easier than it would normally be so we decided to bite the bullet on it.

Suspension sorted on to engines.  VW aircooled is a quick and easy setup but the Subie is a simple(ish) conversion and better power/reliability/parts availability so we put that in our notebook.   Our subie expert recommended the 2.2 for its robust nature, availability and the fact that it doesnt make so much power it will immediately grenade a VW transaxle.  Early 90s subie legacies are cheap and we should be able to part out the rest of the car to more than make up for the initial cost. 

We almost flipped the script entirely when we brought home the cheap miata but we decided that was kind of boring in compairason.

http://wartburg.misfittoysracing.com
OTTER: "I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part."
BLUTO: "We're just the guys to do it."

44 (edited by JThw8 2009-11-10 08:56 AM)

Re: Follow the adventure

some other tidbits now that things are getting sorted out.

The wheelbase is being extended 3 inches (moving the rear wheels back) this should help handling slightly but the bigger reasons were

1) by doing this the shifter on the center tunnel of the VW chassis falls in just the right place
2) it moves the wheel arches out of the C-pillar to make flaring the rear fenders easier (you didnt think I was going to let this go without flares did you?)

Flipping the transaxle and modding the VW rear suspension was considered for a mid-engine layout but was ditched due to complexity and time constraints as well as the thought of having to do any major work by crawling through the rear doors and over the roll cage.

http://wartburg.misfittoysracing.com
OTTER: "I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part."
BLUTO: "We're just the guys to do it."

Re: Follow the adventure

yeah, the biggest reason I see for not flipping it really has to do with the transmission, that's why i fancied the LH powertrain. i guess just about any fwd setup would be good so long as fitting it between the wheel wells wouldn't be problematic. Still would make for some issues with cage fab and access should anything go awry(which it will with all that Frankensteining) the boxer/ pseudo 911 setup should be awesome fun though with that low gravity center!

Re: Follow the adventure

Actually flipping the trans was the easier part of the equation.  With a VW transaxle you just move the ring gear to the other side, its pretty straightforward.  but then the engind and the trans encroach on the torsion tubes which are the "spring" for the rear suspension so you have to modify the trailing arms to pivot on a heim joint and use coilovers for the suspension.   I did alot of research on it because I think the balance would have been better but limited time and the whole accessibility issue dictated staying with the current plan.

http://wartburg.misfittoysracing.com
OTTER: "I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part."
BLUTO: "We're just the guys to do it."

Re: Follow the adventure

yeah, I can really tell. For a few minutes there I thought you had this in 5000 pieces as soon as it pulled up to your place, and actually tried mid-mounting already. With all the extra engineering you're putting into this you could practically fab up a whole drivetrain on a frame then slip the body over the top. Just keep the caffeine flowing my friend.

...then again, you practically are. can't wait til pics start showing up of the engine in place.

48 (edited by JThw8 2009-11-10 11:49 AM)

Re: Follow the adventure

In essence you've hit the nail on the head.  The body will come off the frame shortly and we will fab everything up on the frame then find a way to make the body fit back over it.   I've never been one for letting a little sheetmetal dictate how things need to fit.

For a very brief moment I considerd just scratch building a whole new frame but the only real purpose would have been to preserve the stock frame to take the car back to stock later, its become obvious that level of preservation wont be possible.  We also had concerns the factory frame might be too weak but those were quickly put aside when we saw it, rather stoutly built little car.

We're actually moving fairly slow right now though, the last month has mostly been just collecting parts and donors on the cheap so everything was in one spot so hopefully we dont hit too many "waiting on ......" moments.   Our team is kinda scattered out with anywhere from an hour to 2 1/2 hours between us so getting everyone together is difficult as most have families and jobs and all that stuff that gets in the way too.  In fact Im getting ready to head to Denmark for a week so more delays.   If we can have a rolling chassis by the new year I'll be happy.   We've put alot of time into the planning and "engineering" (guesswork is more like it) so now its just time to act on the plans. 
We're also not working in some fancy shop here like some builds (not that there's anything wrong with that, Im envious) just a home garage with perhaps a little better than the standard compliment of tools.

http://wartburg.misfittoysracing.com
OTTER: "I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part."
BLUTO: "We're just the guys to do it."

Re: Follow the adventure

that sounds familiar. I haven't had a single team member less than 3 hours away until VERY recently, and i get the stink-eye every time I skate out to the garage for more than 20 minutes, lol. Makes me wonder why I'm house shopping for a place with a Pole Barn and 220-230v service.

50 (edited by JThw8 2009-11-10 11:59 AM)

Re: Follow the adventure

Serj wrote:

that sounds familiar. I haven't had a single team member less than 3 hours away until VERY recently, and i get the stink-eye every time I skate out to the garage for more than 20 minutes, lol. Makes me wonder why I'm house shopping for a place with a Pole Barn and 220-230v service.

When we moved 2 years ago I looked at 3 differend places with 40x60 or larger pole barns.  One was big enough I could pull my school bus inside and turn a full circle.  Unfortunately the houses associated with these garagemahals were not up to SWMBO's standards. 

Eventually we compromised when she found me a 4 car garage with a 15 car driveway.  My neighbors hate me.  This picture is from when we first looked at it and its the last time there was any less than 4 cars in the driveway.

http://jimthwaite.com/house/22Kaylas/images/IMG_3458_JPG.jpg

I do have an acre out back too so someday I may still get that pole barn.

http://wartburg.misfittoysracing.com
OTTER: "I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part."
BLUTO: "We're just the guys to do it."