Topic: Do you balance the wheels/tires on your lemon?

Most autox guys don't bother balancing because speeds are slow.
Lots of road race guys don't bother because tires tend to move on wheels.
After a few hours of racing, even the best balanced tires will be covered in all sorts of slag and junk coming off the track, so they probably aren't all that balanced anymore.

Is it just a waste of time trying to balance your wheels/tires on your lemon?

Maximum Efforts Motorsports
Mid-Engine Chevette
S-10 incoming...

Re: Do you balance the wheels/tires on your lemon?

I have "bubble balanced" about 10 Dunlop Direzzas, and NONE needed balance weights.  These were on stock Vdub aluminum wheels, two with a few "minor" rash marks due to contact.  It was free since I had a bucket of weights, and a balance in the shop already.

   Same wheels, next race:  Could not get Dunlops, so got the new Falken 615K.  Only one did NOT need weights, the others usually needed 1-1.75 ounces.   Turning on the rim did not resolve the imbalance.

This is Lemons.  If you balance them perfectly, 8.7 seconds into the first stint some hooner will grenade in front of you and you will flat spot all 4 trying to dodge the carnage.  As long as the car doesn't rattle your teeth loose, you are good.

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Re: Do you balance the wheels/tires on your lemon?

Yes and no regrets

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Re: Do you balance the wheels/tires on your lemon?

Yes.  As our tires last 2-3 races including practice sessions, we are on them for a while, and having a set of unbalanced tires adds even more fatigue for the drivers.  It is cheap, too.

Chris from 3 Pedal Mafia

Re: Do you balance the wheels/tires on your lemon?

I guess it depends on the car because we don't nor have ever balanced a set of tires on our car, and have no tire wear issues nor comfort issues.  IMO its a waste of money, unless your rims are bent/beat they will feel fine, and for how you're using them, adding little 1-2 oz weights aren't gonna make damn near a bit of difference..

Tom Lomino - Proud to be a 23x Lemons Loser, 3x Class B, and 1x IOE Winner!
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Re: Do you balance the wheels/tires on your lemon?

RogueLeader wrote:

IMO its a waste of money, unless your rims are bent/beat they will feel fine, and for how you're using them, adding little 1-2 oz weights aren't gonna make damn near a bit of difference..

At least 2 or 3 of my 8 wheels are slightly bent, so.... they got balanced.

The Homer: Powerful like a gorilla, yet soft and yielding like a Nerf ball.

Re: Do you balance the wheels/tires on your lemon?

Always.

Re: Do you balance the wheels/tires on your lemon?

Never balanced any of the 40 plus falken azenis  for the factor if you balance it ,as the tire wears out then that weight will make out of balance .
Plus balancing vibration are usually from staying at a certain speed for a while.
Most vibrations are 35 65 85 mph but when racing your accelerating thru those speeds .

Save the $7-10 a tire for balancing.

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Re: Do you balance the wheels/tires on your lemon?

We tried balancing our race tires once.

They balanced really well.

Then our arms got tired and we put them down.

Apparently my name is really "Craigers".  Who knew?
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Re: Do you balance the wheels/tires on your lemon?

solman244 wrote:

We tried balancing our race tires once.

They balanced really well.

Then our arms got tired and we put them down.

Go have your coffee.

This space for rent.

Re: Do you balance the wheels/tires on your lemon?

Yes, just a waste of time.  But balance 'em if it makes you feel better.

Jim C.
If God meant for us to race, we'd all have baggy Nomex skin.
08TMS.09NL.10GM, SP, NL.11SP, NL.12SP, VIR, NL.13GM, NJ.14NJ, VIR, WGI.15AB.16GM.17NCM.18GM.19...

Re: Do you balance the wheels/tires on your lemon?

Balanced with tape weights, cover them with AL tape to keep them on.

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Re: Do you balance the wheels/tires on your lemon?

The 225/50R15s on my Jag? They're not tall enough for an imbalance to even be felt. The 31x10.5x15s on my old Jeep? Hell yes, they were tall enough to affect steering.

Re: Do you balance the wheels/tires on your lemon?

If I had to pay for it, I wouldn't balance them.

I like having them balanced for track use where we may see 100+mph.

For autocross, I don't balance.  less unsprung weight wink

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Re: Do you balance the wheels/tires on your lemon?

What about dynamic balancing the wheels?

Ever since I've been mounting my own tires I've been using airsoft pellets inside the tires to balance them.  The weight automatically moves to where it's needed.

Aaron

1999 Astro (Green the Daily Driver) - 2WD, 4.3L, 3.23, 200k+ miles, FE2 steering
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Re: Do you balance the wheels/tires on your lemon?

ihatemybike wrote:

What about dynamic balancing the wheels?

Ever since I've been mounting my own tires I've been using airsoft pellets inside the tires to balance them.  The weight automatically moves to where it's needed.

That really only works if the wheel is spinning at a constant speed like going down the hwy.  It would cause more unbalance in a Lemons car with the constant accel and decel we go through.

If it doesn't have 2 doors, 3 pedals, and 5 lug nuts per wheel - It isn't a real race car

Re: Do you balance the wheels/tires on your lemon?

Wait, people really do this and it works? I have no idea how.

I would figure at some speed the pellets get stuck up against the inside tire wall and just sit there. Maybe they get jossled around but that would be pretty random. How do they move to the most unbalanced place on the tire? I think yer yankin ma chain!

Maximum Efforts Motorsports
Mid-Engine Chevette
S-10 incoming...

Re: Do you balance the wheels/tires on your lemon?

Agreed, I think the airsoft pellets is an urban myth.  An unbalanced tire tends to sling the heaviest part of the tire farther from the center of the axle.  The pellets would go to the farthest point from the center, which would also be the heavy spot, so they should actually exacerbate an imbalance.

Many people have drinked the blue koolaid, but that doesn't mean it's really koolaid.

Jim C.
If God meant for us to race, we'd all have baggy Nomex skin.
08TMS.09NL.10GM, SP, NL.11SP, NL.12SP, VIR, NL.13GM, NJ.14NJ, VIR, WGI.15AB.16GM.17NCM.18GM.19...

Re: Do you balance the wheels/tires on your lemon?

Wait.  I thought it was _purple_ koolaid.

Oh.  Hang on.  Wrong forum.

Scott

Re: Do you balance the wheels/tires on your lemon?

The dynamic balance with airsoft bb's works.  But really only on large tires with big sidewalls.  The 31's on my Jeep are balance that way and it works really good.  Tractor trailers have been doing it for decades. 
You have to use alot of them, I have 8-10oz in my little 31's.  Search offroad/rock crawling forums and you'll find lots of people do it with great results.

If it doesn't have 2 doors, 3 pedals, and 5 lug nuts per wheel - It isn't a real race car

21 (edited by TeamPettyCash 2011-11-12 12:43 AM)

Re: Do you balance the wheels/tires on your lemon?

I've been doing the airsoft pellet trick for years, works great.  Mind you this is on a wheel/tire combo that weighs 130 lbs., 37x12.50 Kevlar MT/R on 17x9 Walker Evans Beadlocks. It's good in the offroad application because conventional weights get ripped off by rocks or tree roots, even tape weights get lost due to mud.

We use normal lead weights on the Lemons Jeep, but we have run unbalanced before.  We don't pay for it, so we typically run with them balanced.

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-Matt

30 Time Loser with Class C, Index of Effluency, I got Screwed and Heroic Fix Trophies who usually races, according to Car and Driver, The Greatest Road Racing Cherokee in History.

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Re: Do you balance the wheels/tires on your lemon?

Must just be me.  I've seen no improvement in higway manners w/ bias and radial swampers stuffed w/ beanbags, airsof, BB's, proper clip on weights...  Big tires w/ real tread are wobbly IME.
OTOH, our race tires have never needed more than an ounce to balance, so I just don't put the weight on, since it wil be imbalanced after 24hrs, or get knocked off during an agricultural excursion.

Jim C.
If God meant for us to race, we'd all have baggy Nomex skin.
08TMS.09NL.10GM, SP, NL.11SP, NL.12SP, VIR, NL.13GM, NJ.14NJ, VIR, WGI.15AB.16GM.17NCM.18GM.19...

23 (edited by TeamPettyCash 2011-11-13 08:24 PM)

Re: Do you balance the wheels/tires on your lemon?

FJ40Jim wrote:

Must just be me.  I've seen no improvement in higway manners w/ bias and radial swampers stuffed w/ beanbags, airsof, BB's, proper clip on weights...  Big tires w/ real tread are wobbly IME.
OTOH, our race tires have never needed more than an ounce to balance, so I just don't put the weight on, since it wil be imbalanced after 24hrs, or get knocked off during an agricultural excursion.

Well, yeah, if you're talking about Swampers then there's nothing you can do, Interco builds square tires.  big_smile

My last few batches of tires (BFG Krawlers, MT/R Kevlars) have all seen many thousands of street miles and speeds up to 90 mph with no tire imbalance issues.

30 Time Loser with Class C, Index of Effluency, I got Screwed and Heroic Fix Trophies who usually races, according to Car and Driver, The Greatest Road Racing Cherokee in History.

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24 (edited by EyeMWing 2011-11-13 09:00 PM)

Re: Do you balance the wheels/tires on your lemon?

FJ40Jim wrote:

Agreed, I think the airsoft pellets is an urban myth.  An unbalanced tire tends to sling the heaviest part of the tire farther from the center of the axle.  The pellets would go to the farthest point from the center, which would also be the heavy spot, so they should actually exacerbate an imbalance.

Many people have drinked the blue koolaid, but that doesn't mean it's really koolaid.

Heavy trucks (as in semi fleets) do this all the time. It really works. As long as tire RPM is above the point where centripetal force sticks the beads to the tire, it's good. This means that the smaller and lighter the bead, the closer to 0mph it'll work.

Speed changes don't make an appreciable difference. There's some internal shifting, but it balances back out continuously with a small lag - the general effect being that you're never actually in perfect balance - but you're chasing it closely).


Drawbacks:
- It doesn't do a damned thing for lateral imblances - only radial. This means that a lot of wheels (especially ones with higher offsets) with low-profile tires will need additional weight (the extra mass of high-profile tires diminishes the significance of lateral wheel balance).

Most manufacturers of dedicated products for these things say not to bother with aspects lower than 60, which excludes almost everybody's race tires.

- It's a goddamned asshole to install the first time (They will end up in the bead until you work out a technique that works for you to prevent it)

I've got two of the tires on my truck balanced this way because Walmart can't crimp wheel weights to save their lives. If anything, they're smoother than the others.

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Re: Do you balance the wheels/tires on your lemon?

I was pissed this weekend to see that the guy at the used tire place I had mount my mail order tires had left an old weight on my junkyard wheels.  I know he didn't put a new weight on because I told him not to bother balancing them.  I'd just leave it, but its a clip on and I don't want it flying off on track.

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