A couple Newbie Q's Lemons car build (Page 1 of 2)

I can't wait for John to chime in.... but:

Yes, the ad and bill of sale should be fine... unless they both say you paid $100 for a Ferrari..

Glass is track specific generally.  We have a windshield, but removed the rear glass.  As far as the roof goes?

Fuel cell?  Why?  You could argue safety to the judges, but that's a lot of work for a Ford Probe.  Does the stock tank violate existing Lemons rules?

If your existing fuel compartment is "un-safe".. then adding a fuel cell might be considered "safety".

Lots of people run without windshields and just use a visor on their helmet..  I personally wouldn't recommend it considering the amount of debris generally found with 110 $500 cars barreling around a track and god-knows-how-fast speeds.

Yank the rear hatch glass so the cell is easier to get to imo

We run our Camaro without any glass (or roof) but we did put a 2' x 2' piece of Lexan in the windshield frame in front of the driver, to catch any debris that may fly off of a lemon. You could also use some hail screen in the windshield frame, to catch debris. We used the lexan to block the wind off the driver. It was cold in Houston in Feb.

Jim B
Los Diablos Flamed Camaro

Okay, my turn!

1) Fuel cells are ALWAYS identified as safety and, when you've got one (especially just laying around), you're ALWAYS wise to use it.

1a) Just remember that if you happen to get "The Curse," you've only got a limited amount of time to strip off what you want from the car before it's destroyed.  A valuable fuel cell may fall into the time vs cost equation/consideration.

1b) Running fuel lines through the passenger compartment is a no-no.

1c) External fuel pump is considered a part of the fuel system and, therefore, has to be enclosed or shielded from the driver's compartment.

2) There's no rule at any track that says you have to have any glass -- windshield or otherwise.  In fact, they'd probably prefer if you don't have one.  It's a loss less weight, too!

2a) What if it rains?  (Invest in a lot of Rain-X)

3) Bill of Sale but no title?  Hmmmm.  Sounds stolen.

4) "I am planning on running the Lemons south fall race."  South?  Now I know its stolen.

5) BTW -- you should know that Judge Murilee's favorite bribe are old copies of "Horse Lover's Journal" and I hear that Judge Jonny has a peculiar penchant for Boone's Farm (especially the light blue "berry" stuff).

6) Eibach springs, Penske shocks, Howe swaybars -- all the trick set-up for Ford Probes.

Good luck -
John

Be sure to read all the fuel cell and fuel line routing requirements in the rules.  They're pretty stringent and totally not flexible.  More than a few teams have spent friday night welding lots and lots of metal into their car to try and pass their fuel cell.  If the stock tank is anything other than non-salvageable you're asking for a lot more trouble when there's no requirement to do so.

You can cut the top off, the doors off, the hood off, or the car in half if you want to.  You just have to wear wrist restraints as soon as you remove the structure from above your head.  Ok, I was kidding about the cut the car in half part, don't do that.

If you install a fuel cell, keep a close eye on the tech inspectors at the track when they inspect the cell. At Houston in February, the Bikini Racer/Witch Doctor Camaro suffered a persistent and intermittent fuel sender failure that took them nearly the entire 2 days to figure out: a tech judge accidentally (and, I presume, unknowingly) dropped his pen cap in their fuel cell while inspecting it. It did lead to their winning some award or another (heroic fix?), but I suspect that they would have preferred to not have the problem and have to fix it at all. Cheers.

Hey, Rogue -- Just go on CraigsList or other websites and start collecting comparable listings.  If you have 10 comps that range from $200-$400, your $300 story will hold up.  However, if the other cars are $500-$1,000 and all look crappier than yours... you're toast.

John

I really don't think I can prove it, I got the car off craigslist 2 years ago it was advertised for $450.  If you see this car you wouldn't give more than $300 for it, its no spring chicken, paint is shot, kid who had it before me painted a checkerboard on the roof, leaks oil, a/c is dead, and it has no options no nothing.  I hear people getting away with salvage E30s, so I see no reason why they could ever value this car over that, aside from maybe a Geo metro it was probably the cheapest new car you could get in 93.   

I even tried looking for ads, there arent a ton of these cars around, but when you do find them they are cheap.

My father did tech for a road rally back in the day when Laguna Seca just started and he refused to touch any part of the car so the owner/driver couldn't blame him for anything going wrong.  I'd hate for anything I did to a car (pen cap in fuel tank; not me) screw with anyone's hard work so at Reno i'll kindly ask persmission before I jiggle anything to check its safety worthiness.  If its questionable and repairable I could be persuaded to let it slide with some behind the wheel time.   But I hope it won't have to come to that since these will all be finely tuned machines ready for racing.  Oh who am I kidding they were welding the cage race day in a Yugo at Thunderhill last fall.  I'm preparing for every safety sob story.

Chris "Safety never takes a holiday" Hanzel

With a Probe, you're probably OK with a nice itemized list (as long as we don't find a cheat-tastic cheat-stravaganza of costly-looking goodies once we start sniffing around the suspension). But do your best to get airtight documentation.

Hi, I'm new to Lemons and had a question about a "FREE" car. I have an auto repair shop and a customer abandoned after failing miserably on a state safety inspection
he gave me the title and we called the failed inspection ($20.00) even. He is a good customer and I wouldn't have charged him anything any way. Should I have him sign an affidavit or just say I stole it ?
Dave

Just to chime in here on the worth of these cars that you didn't "buy" from someone. You might find it worth your time to PM a judge with pictures, story, etc. and see if they'd be willing to give you a value which they would put the car at.

Not every judge would assign it the same, and i imagine this would become an issue if too many people tried it, but if you can get them to say it's worth $367 to them, then your in luck and have a good starting point.

At least that's what i'd do.

btw: good luck on that probe. I had one as my first car, total piece of crap mazda...