1 (edited by pk386 2011-12-30 09:49 AM)

Topic: HOW TO:Resurface a cylinder head with out a machine

To be honest for a daily driver I'll spend the $50-100 bucks and have a machine shop do it.

But for lemons where thats 10-20% of you entire $500 budget This could be a good enough method.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc_gaGAf2pk

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My crazy Idea for anyone running a Honda D series and wants to keep the head gasket from blowing...


The head gasket blows because it's not a closed deck and the OEM gasket is organic material. With an unclosed deck the cylinder walls will litterally wobble and cause the already flimsey gasket to blow

So we pull the heads do the epoxy/salt method of closing the deck and put a new HG on it = Bullet proof D16
   Epoxy salt method:
   -Pull the head
   -fill the space between the block and the cylinder walls 1/2-3/4of the way full of salt
    and the rest with epoxy (JBweld) leaving the epoxy slightly concave at the top so you
    don't have to re-suface the deck
   -once it cures you flush out the salt with a water hose
   -using a new head gasket for a template drill out the coolant passages to the head (people
    over at honda-tech.com can help figure out which gasket is the best for this type of setup
    vs cost)
   -resurface the head using the method above
   -Bolt on heads
   -now pray that your head bolts were built on Wednesday by a guy who got laid on Tuesday
   -???
   -500$ profit

"I haven't failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that don't work" - Thomas Edison

Re: HOW TO:Resurface a cylinder head with out a machine

That might work, but sanding like that tends to remove more material from the front than the rest of the piece,. In this case the head is so long that this may be minimal.

The Opel has iron heads, so it would probably take a week of doing that to make any progress, plus that sand paper won't last long. Now, if he could add a border around the edge of the table, cover it completely with SiC paper, and rig up something that would move the table around under the part, I could see that working for us. (We've used small versions of a machine like that to grind and polish samples for microscopic examinations.)

Re: HOW TO:Resurface a cylinder head with out a machine

Spank had a post like that a while back.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

Re: HOW TO:Resurface a cylinder head with out a machine

Thanks for the D16 tip. I've got one waiting for me to decide which car to put it in.

My advice on the head resurfacing: Don't use a table to support the glass. Do it on concrete. And make the glass THICK (or get some slate). Even on the thickest table you've got it bows the glass. I use concrete and a piece of thin carpet or material before I put the glass on it just to take the sharp irregularities out of the glass to concrete mate.

m610, cast iron is pretty soft. You'll be surprised how fast it goes. I used to use just 120 grit, but I've gone to 80 grit and as it comes off the grit helps to float the head. You gotta blow off the paper and head (or wipe) pretty often to have it keep cutting, though. If it floats on too much grit it won't take much off.

Another tip is if you can get a big enough glass piece, take the material off using a figure 8 motion so you don't bias pressure on any one edge. Flip the head 1/4 turn every so often to again avoid biasing a hand or side even unwittingly.

Also, if you can get self-adhesive paper, you're much better off. Using the spray glue you'll get lumps and irregularities in the flatness of the abrasive surface. The self-adhesive stuff is very flat. Gaps between the paper are good as it helps to capture the debris as it is removed. Be wary of the edges curling up, though. If it starts to curl, use a razor blade to cut it off before proceeding.

I had to do both heads AND blocks after March Infineon in the mini and the moke as they both cooked themselves.

When I tired a Cometic gasket on a motor which requires a very fine surface finish, I did both the block and the head down to 120 grit THEN I put sharpie all over the head and the block and did the slide test to make sure I had perfect contact everywhere before mounting it.

Re: HOW TO:Resurface a cylinder head with out a machine

A really good surface to use is a granite surface plate.  You can find these pretty cheap from a machine shop that is looking to upgrade.

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Re: HOW TO:Resurface a cylinder head with out a machine

The epoxy salt idea is a good idea, but when the epoxy gets warmed up, it will soften, its not really a structural material. Its a great adhesive to bond together structural materials.

We (D16A1) cut some small aluminum blocks and fitted them at the 12, 3, 6,  and 9 o'clock positions between the cylinders and the block. We filed them to fit snug, and then epoxied them in place just to hold them there. So the Aluminum takes the load of the cylinders moving, not the epoxy. Never sure if that helped or not, because that was the time frame we were killing bearings. (baffled pan)

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?Everyone who has ever built anywhere a 'new heaven' first found the power thereto in his own hell- Frederick Nietzsche

Re: HOW TO:Resurface a cylinder head with out a machine

the auto shop and the college where I work has a "head surfacer" machine.....honestly its a huge belt sander........

My advice....go to your local community college that has an auto shop...ask the instructor if any students can surface your head.....the cost will be nearly zero....

Richard Doty
1984 Porsche 928 "Estate"
Porsche- "there is A substitute" Racing
Dirt Poorsche Racing #2

Re: HOW TO:Resurface a cylinder head with out a machine

icemang17 wrote:

the auto shop and the college where I work has a "head surfacer" machine.....honestly its a huge belt sander........

My advice....go to your local community college that has an auto shop...ask the instructor if any students can surface your head.....the cost will be nearly zero....

AHH yes I forget the local community college.

"I haven't failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that don't work" - Thomas Edison

Re: HOW TO:Resurface a cylinder head with out a machine

I have a machine shop we have a big heavy mill (only 5000lbs) and a 14" by 27" belt sander (mostly use it for manifolds we use 27g belts for manifolds 40g for cast heads  and 80g for aluminum. The sandpaper on glass (thick as possible)will work but I have seen more heads made worse than better with other hand techniques.Just be careful and spanks idea to use a shapie is excellent.

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Re: HOW TO:Resurface a cylinder head with out a machine

pk386 wrote:
icemang17 wrote:

the auto shop and the college where I work has a "head surfacer" machine.....honestly its a huge belt sander........

My advice....go to your local community college that has an auto shop...ask the instructor if any students can surface your head.....the cost will be nearly zero....

AHH yes I forget the local community college.

I know a guy who keeps getting associates degrees (up to 3 or 4 at this point?)  from a local community college because he keeps buying muscle cars that need restoring and being enrolled gets him access to all thr space and tools and paint booths, etc in the auto tech lab.  He's a lawyer by day and a community college student for fun and profit at night!

ALLEGEDLY!

-Dave
Scuderia Ignorante // Modena / Dearborn / Aichi Prefecture / West Texas

Re: HOW TO:Resurface a cylinder head with out a machine

Spank wrote:

When I tired a Cometic gasket on a motor which requires a very fine surface finish, I did both the block and the head down to 120 grit THEN I put sharpie all over the head and the block and did the slide test to make sure I had perfect contact everywhere before mounting it.

What's the slide test?

-Victor

12 (edited by psychoboy 2011-12-30 07:37 AM)

Re: HOW TO:Resurface a cylinder head with out a machine

color the mating surface with sharpie marker

slide the head over something clean and flat with just a hint of traction.

if the surface is flat, you'll take all the sharpie off at once, if it's not, you'll leave sharpie in the low spots.


basically it's the machinist's version of blocksanding a guidecoat in the body shop.

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Regularly losing in Class A
Soon to start losing in Class C

13 (edited by pk386 2011-12-30 09:50 AM)

Re: HOW TO:Resurface a cylinder head with out a machine

IgnoranteWest wrote:

I know a guy who keeps getting associates degrees (up to 3 or 4 at this point?)  from a local community college because he keeps buying muscle cars that need restoring and being enrolled gets him access to all thr space and tools and paint booths, etc in the auto tech lab.  He's a lawyer by day and a community college student for fun and profit at night!

LOL I was just debating this in my mind the other night as an alternative to a hacker space.

Heck since collages are so hard up for money, I'd pay a for a gym like member ship to a local community college to have access to tools and what not.

I'd almost kill for access to a tire machine, wheel ballancer, machine press, bridgeport mill ect.

I'm in the same boat; Electronics Engineer by day Car geek by night.

"I haven't failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that don't work" - Thomas Edison

Re: HOW TO:Resurface a cylinder head with out a machine

sublimate wrote:
Spank wrote:

When I tired a Cometic gasket on a motor which requires a very fine surface finish, I did both the block and the head down to 120 grit THEN I put sharpie all over the head and the block and did the slide test to make sure I had perfect contact everywhere before mounting it.

What's the slide test?

I actually sharpie the head and the block and then slide them against each other using about 1/4-1/2" circles (not easy with fingers and a cast iron head) to make sure the head and block touch each other over the entire mating surface.

Re: HOW TO:Resurface a cylinder head with out a machine

Wow, this is better than my method! Granted, my heads weren't warped... I think, but I needed something to knock down high spots around the head bolt holes and clean up the surface. I just so happened to have a smooth 4" long sharpening stone that was actually straight as I could hope for. After spending about 40 minutes a head working the stone in all different directions and using ATF as a lubricant, it did a nice job of cleaning up the head and taking out a few high spots! It's surprising just how much metal pulls up around the bolt holes in the block and down from the cylinder head.

Team Fall Guy Stuntman Association - 1989 Ford Escort - Gator-O-Rama Feb 2010

That Looks About Right (TLAR) Motorsports - 1983 Dodge Challenger - In Build

Re: HOW TO:Resurface a cylinder head with out a machine

I am planning on having the 928 painted this January.......the cost will be zero....a worthy lemons price....the paint was donated by a supplier.....labor is free (students).....the head instructor is VERY good.....used to paint Ferraris before he retired to teaching.....

Richard Doty
1984 Porsche 928 "Estate"
Porsche- "there is A substitute" Racing
Dirt Poorsche Racing #2

Re: HOW TO:Resurface a cylinder head with out a machine

icemang17 wrote:

I am planning on having the 928 painted this January.......the cost will be zero....a worthy lemons price....the paint was donated by a supplier.....labor is free (students).....the head instructor is VERY good.....used to paint Ferraris before he retired to teaching.....

What!?!  I thought it was a LeMons requirement that your car must be painted with Krylon rattle can or Baer roll-on latex.

Bryan Pendleton
Automotive Engineering Outcasts
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Re: HOW TO:Resurface a cylinder head with out a machine

I've raced combined 30 races with d series and blown one head gasket only because driver didn't turn on fans. Stock head gasket with 200 k on it .you need to buy a big radiator what I use is a 90 Acura integra with automatic and air conditioning . It's 4 times the size of stock 92-97 and a 2 row you can fir 2 fans on it .
They do make blockguards for $40 an aluminium that holds cylinders .

Also key to d series run 3/4 qt over full to solve oil issue took 3 motors to figure that out .

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