• Registered: 2011-05-22
  • Posts: 45

Topic: Completed our fuel cell install Need clarification on bulkhead rule

We just completed all the frame work for our fuel cell cage, and also our roll cage extension to the rear bumper.

We bulilt a box around our fuel cell out of 1x1 steel.  That box is then connected to the "frame rails" or thicker part of the body sheetmetal on our E30, and also to our roll cage.

We also extended our roll cage out to the rear bumper to help protect the fuel cell in a rear end collision.

The fuel cell is an FIA FT3 rated cell bought from fuel safe.  We are going to be using all braided lines and correct AN fittings on all connections.

Do we need to build a metal bulkhead around the cell to separate it from our interior?

The rule states:
"If the fuel tank can't be completely separated from the cockpit by metal panels, a metal-encased, FIA-certified fuel cell with all related compliant fittings must be used."

Also any suggestions/improvements we should make?

Pictures of the frame and cell location:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-AF00RvmKlaE/TvzvydAuQjI/AAAAAAAAAXg/WLOdwkFM064/s800/2011-12-29_14-33-51_796.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-kuh0cnDa1og/TvzvyFZnVdI/AAAAAAAAAXU/fEcdsWywor4/s800/2011-12-29_14-33-36_46.jpg
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-rJZ1NRxhRVM/Tvzvw2DKu5I/AAAAAAAAAXM/edxmAqMR8w8/s800/2011-12-29_14-33-27_308.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-eCjvibE9Ur8/TvzvvdgCZjI/AAAAAAAAAXA/1-ToikTtG6Q/s800/2011-12-28_19-31-32_39.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-YeXu-khuzuA/Tvzvwp-RniI/AAAAAAAAAXI/Q-T-3ac4b_o/s800/2011-12-28_19-24-35_55.jpg

1976 (or so) Lotus Elite - Powered by Lotus (for now) - 2012 - Chubby Chedda "Theoretically Fast" Winner
1998 Ford Escort - 2 time loser
1986 BMW E30 - 5 or 6 time loser
  • Troy
  • Troy
  • Lemons Staff Stalker
  • Offline
  • From: Houston, TX
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 1,634

Re: Completed our fuel cell install Need clarification on bulkhead rule

FIA approved cells, which ATLs are, do not require a bulkhead.  It's still a good idea though.

Overall, your install looks very good.

Our fuel cell is basically covered by a metal box with a lid on top to access the filler.

While you can make a box yourself, sheet metal/ A/C ducting places will crank out a nice box for a reasonable price.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z
  • From: CT
  • Registered: 2010-09-20
  • Posts: 258

Re: Completed our fuel cell install Need clarification on bulkhead rule

How are you going to route your fuel lines?

Here's a general question I have for hatchbacks (sorry if I high jack your thread but maybe it'll help you too):

What are you guys with hatches doing for fuel line routing?

All these ATL cells are top feed right? So a fuel line, by default, goes up from the top of the fuel cell and down to the main lines below the car. In passing, that line goes through the driver compartment. Is steel braided line considered "conduit" or whatever the wording is? I know we aren't the first people to do this but I can't find any good pictures or threads anywhere showing how people got from the top of the tank to underneath the car.

Thanks!

Maximum Efforts Motorsports
Mid-Engine Chevette
S-10 incoming...
  • From: Round Rock, Tx
  • Registered: 2010-12-06
  • Posts: 688

Re: Completed our fuel cell install Need clarification on bulkhead rule

Looks like you'd still need some bracing across the top in case of a rollover to hold the cell in place?  Not sure if that was planned yet from your pics.

Pucker Factor Racing - Gator-O-Rama, Feb '11, Yee-Haw It's Lemons Texas!, Oct '11
Scuderia Ignorante - Yee-Haw, It's Lemons Texas, Feb '12 (As seen in Car & Driver), Gator-O-Rama, Sept '13
  • From: CT
  • Registered: 2010-09-20
  • Posts: 258

Re: Completed our fuel cell install Need clarification on bulkhead rule

It looks like the top of the metal lid actually bolts to the brace.

Maximum Efforts Motorsports
Mid-Engine Chevette
S-10 incoming...
  • From: Round Rock, Tx
  • Registered: 2010-12-06
  • Posts: 688

Re: Completed our fuel cell install Need clarification on bulkhead rule

St. Mary wrote:

It looks like the top of the metal lid actually bolts to the brace.

I see that now, very nice!

Pucker Factor Racing - Gator-O-Rama, Feb '11, Yee-Haw It's Lemons Texas!, Oct '11
Scuderia Ignorante - Yee-Haw, It's Lemons Texas, Feb '12 (As seen in Car & Driver), Gator-O-Rama, Sept '13

7 Reply by DC Doug (edited by DC Doug 2011-12-29 09:35 PM)

  • DC Doug
  • DC Doug
  • Lemons Staff Stalker
  • Offline
  • From: Washington DC / SF Bay area
  • Registered: 2010-09-27
  • Posts: 2,856

Re: Completed our fuel cell install Need clarification on bulkhead rule

St. Mary wrote:

How are you going to route your fuel lines?

Here's a general question I have for hatchbacks (sorry if I high jack your thread but maybe it'll help you too):

What are you guys with hatches doing for fuel line routing?

All these ATL cells are top feed right? So a fuel line, by default, goes up from the top of the fuel cell and down to the main lines below the car. In passing, that line goes through the driver compartment. Is steel braided line considered "conduit" or whatever the wording is? I know we aren't the first people to do this but I can't find any good pictures or threads anywhere showing how people got from the top of the tank to underneath the car.

Thanks!

Braided lines no longer (as of Jan 2011) constitute a safe conduit through the drivers compartment.  We built the Galaxie (Nov'10-Feb'11) with braided lines through the cabin per the '10 rulebook.  Found out at CMP in Feb that they were no longer kosher.  We now run the braided lines through flexible exhaust tubing (still through the cabin).  We've run three races like that in 2011.  Guess we'll see if they still like it at CMP in March.

I'd email TEO with what you decide you want to do before you do it.

Speedycop/NSF Racing /Pinewood Dirtbags
'10 Summit, CMP3, Autobahn, '11 CMP1, NJMP, CMP2, Summit, G'man, Stafford, Charlotte, Autobahn, ECR '12 CMP1, NJMP, G'man, NHMS1, Summit, CMP2, NHMS2, ECR, '13 CMP1, ECR, Summit, NJMP, THill, CMP2, MSR, NHMS, Sears '14 Barber, Sears1, ECR, CMP1, NJMP1, BWillow, Sebring, CMP2, THill, Sears2, '15 Sears1, Barber, Ridge, THill, '16 Sears1
  • Spank
  • Utter Madman
  • Offline
  • From: Escondido, CA
  • Registered: 2009-06-10
  • Posts: 5,863

Re: Completed our fuel cell install Need clarification on bulkhead rule

With a hatch, braided fuel lines with proper AN fittings (not hose clamps) that feed from the cell and down through the rear of the hatch floor and meet up with steel lines beneath the car have been acceptable.

Are you saying, Doug, that your fuel lines run inside the car all the way up to and through the firewall? If that's the case then, yea, they need to be encased. But if they feed down through the trunk floor (a foot or so in length) then the braided is likely still acceptable.

Spank's Website

9 Reply by DC Doug (edited by DC Doug 2011-12-29 10:54 PM)

  • DC Doug
  • DC Doug
  • Lemons Staff Stalker
  • Offline
  • From: Washington DC / SF Bay area
  • Registered: 2010-09-27
  • Posts: 2,856

Re: Completed our fuel cell install Need clarification on bulkhead rule

Spank wrote:

With a hatch, braided fuel lines with proper AN fittings (not hose clamps) that feed from the cell and down through the rear of the hatch floor and meet up with steel lines beneath the car have been acceptable.

Are you saying, Doug, that your fuel lines run inside the car all the way up to and through the firewall? If that's the case then, yea, they need to be encased. But if they feed down through the trunk floor (a foot or so in length) then the braided is likely still acceptable.

Completely agree.

Oh, I had forgotten that TEO did, in fact, sign off on the Galaxie's setup for '12.  So, an effectively double encased setup through the cabin is okay (if you like that kind of thing).

Speedycop/NSF Racing /Pinewood Dirtbags
'10 Summit, CMP3, Autobahn, '11 CMP1, NJMP, CMP2, Summit, G'man, Stafford, Charlotte, Autobahn, ECR '12 CMP1, NJMP, G'man, NHMS1, Summit, CMP2, NHMS2, ECR, '13 CMP1, ECR, Summit, NJMP, THill, CMP2, MSR, NHMS, Sears '14 Barber, Sears1, ECR, CMP1, NJMP1, BWillow, Sebring, CMP2, THill, Sears2, '15 Sears1, Barber, Ridge, THill, '16 Sears1
  • Troy
  • Troy
  • Lemons Staff Stalker
  • Offline
  • From: Houston, TX
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 1,634

Re: Completed our fuel cell install Need clarification on bulkhead rule

For our ATL cell, our fuel lines ran from the top to the cell through two tubes/holes through the floor and tie into the OE hard lines and fuel pump under the car.

All the lines inside the car are under the fuel cell cover.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z
  • Registered: 2011-05-22
  • Posts: 45

Re: Completed our fuel cell install Need clarification on bulkhead rule

We have an in tank fuel pump and surge tank. Then our braided lines come out the top of the cell, go under the car, and then run almost all the way to the fuel rail where we had to run some short pieces of rubber injection hose to connect to the stock fuel rail.

Really I wanted to run braided all the way to our rail, and thread the fittings to our fuel rail but I couldn't find a replacement fuel rail that would let us do that.

So it the consensus that we don't need a bulkhead because our cell is FIA approved and the lines will be under the car?

1976 (or so) Lotus Elite - Powered by Lotus (for now) - 2012 - Chubby Chedda "Theoretically Fast" Winner
1998 Ford Escort - 2 time loser
1986 BMW E30 - 5 or 6 time loser
  • From: oklahoma city
  • Registered: 2009-10-08
  • Posts: 1,586

Re: Completed our fuel cell install Need clarification on bulkhead rule

i would think a small simple removable sheet metal cover to shield the lines and the fittings until they get under the car would be a pretty easy and straightforward solution for the hatchback/noback cars.

Team OK-Speed
Regularly losing in Class A
Soon to start losing in Class C
  • Registered: 2011-05-22
  • Posts: 45

Re: Completed our fuel cell install Need clarification on bulkhead rule

I was kind of hoping a Lemons tech person could chime in and give our cell install the OK. 

Here is a picture now that we have installed the lines. We modified a fuel filter to use as a catch can on our vent line should any fuel actually make it all that way.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-qMp1C65vvGA/TyBWo0jAwtI/AAAAAAAAAi8/Fcao5vwkxWQ/s512/2012-01-25_13-17-41_866.jpg

1976 (or so) Lotus Elite - Powered by Lotus (for now) - 2012 - Chubby Chedda "Theoretically Fast" Winner
1998 Ford Escort - 2 time loser
1986 BMW E30 - 5 or 6 time loser
  • From: St Louis
  • Registered: 2011-10-20
  • Posts: 2,611

Re: Completed our fuel cell install Need clarification on bulkhead rule

How do you attach the braided lines to the stock fuel lines?
Or do you run the braided line to the carb?

Apocalyptic Racing - Occupy Pit Lane racing
Racing the "Toylet" Toyota Celica powered by Chevrolet Ecotec.
24x Loser with the Celica. 16x loser in other fine machines
Overall winner Gingerman 2019

Brett85p's Website

  • Registered: 2011-05-22
  • Posts: 45

Re: Completed our fuel cell install Need clarification on bulkhead rule

We are fuel injected, so we couldn't run the braided lines all the way to the injectors without spending big money on some custom rail. 

The lines go 90% of the way to the fuel rail, then they switch back to the stock rubber lines to connect to the rail.

1976 (or so) Lotus Elite - Powered by Lotus (for now) - 2012 - Chubby Chedda "Theoretically Fast" Winner
1998 Ford Escort - 2 time loser
1986 BMW E30 - 5 or 6 time loser
  • Carlos
  • Carlos
  • Ripened Lemon
  • Offline
  • From: Maryland
  • Registered: 2011-02-10
  • Posts: 204

Re: Completed our fuel cell install Need clarification on bulkhead rule

Our setup looks like yours; the one thing i would do different now - install a roll bar section (somehow) across the BACK of the fuel cell, incase you get rear ended at high force... may protect the fuel cell from massive compression / explosion!  Don't know really, but that part of our car always makes me a bit nervous when looking at it (compared to the MASSIVE roll cage around everything else anyway)...

Gormless Racing
1968 MGB GT, mostly kinda running

Carlos's Website