Topic: So AutoPower bolt-in cages are out. What about their weld-in cages?

We built our car back in 2010 when bolt-in cages were legal.  Now with all the welding requirements, they're pretty much no longer legal.  We ran at the 2012 Showroom Schlock Shootout this past weekend and despite welding it together (to the car, all the joints, adding in door bars and an extra roof bar), Jay still wanted us to weld in gussets before he'd let us pass.  Not a super big deal, not gonna argue, we took care of it... but we were also told it won't pass at all going forward and have to get a "professionally built" cage, vs. the bolt-in one.

So we're trying to figure out what to do. We're waiting on a quote from a local fabricator for a cage but we're expecting it to be over $2k, which is a tough pill to swallow (puts our next event at risk due to funding the cage).  Yes, I'm all for safety, but at some point you start to get into diminishing returns, $-to-safety.  Considering the bolt-in cage is SCCA and NASA legal, and accepting that a welded bolt-in should theoretically be safer, and the AutoPower "welded" cage even safer still... not sure how much extra safety we're getting for more than 4x the price (since we can re-use the main hoop from our existing bolt-in cage once we update the base plates).  As such, we're willing to compromise here as long as it'll pass the tech inspection hassle free.

So what's the verdict on using an AutoPower "weld in" cage, like this one:  http://www.autopowerindustries.com/rollcages.asp  provided we make sure that the base plates are the correct 24" square minimum?  Just trying to get an idea before we buy the thing and then run into hassles in tech.

Car is a Porsche 944.

Thanks

Jim

Re: So AutoPower bolt-in cages are out. What about their weld-in cages?

I've heard the weld-in cages are fine, but unless you're going to install it yourself, it probably won't be much cheaper than having a cage professionally done.

2K is steep, although that is Chicago.  Head down to dirt-track country (Indiana or Illinois), find a good ole boy, and make sure he can read- give him a copy of the LeMons rule book and if you feel comfortable with him, pull the trigger.  That's what we did, and our cage was only a hair over a grand.  We did fully strip the interior prior to cage install, which made his job much easier.

We affirm that the world's magnificence has been enriched by a new beauty: the beauty of speed. A racing car whose hood is adorned with great pipes, like serpents of an explosive breath- a roaring automobile that seems to run on machine-gun fire is more beautiful than the victory of Samothrace.  --Filippo Marinetti

Re: So AutoPower bolt-in cages are out. What about their weld-in cages?

We only paid $1500 for ours in an over 3000lb car, and one much bigger than your 944 too, and this is in L.A.

Constructor/Owner/Driver - Billy Beer Ford Futura

4 (edited by BoB 2012-06-12 02:39 PM)

Re: So AutoPower bolt-in cages are out. What about their weld-in cages?

Give Ed a call, He did ours and team resignations cage a couple years ago, never had an issue with tech.  I think he also welded up a cage for another team.  Good price, although I don't even want to offer a estimate since its been a while.

Ed Hast (Victory Lane)

12956 S Ashland
Blue Island, Il 60406 
708-785-1414

He also is really bad about answering the phone, so leave a message or 2.

Racing 4 Nickels - 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
2011 SHOWROOM-SCHLOCK SHOOTOUT  IOE Winner
2012 The Chubba Cheddar Enduro Class C winner
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Re: So AutoPower bolt-in cages are out. What about their weld-in cages?

And if you are thinking about a new windshield, take it out before doing the cage. Your builder will thank you - and maybe give you a little price break.

Mike
Hong Norrth
#39 TRON Gray/Orange MX-3, aka "Sumbich"

Re: So AutoPower bolt-in cages are out. What about their weld-in cages?

I talked to a guy down in Pontiac about doing a cage in a LeMon.  He guesstimated about $1500.  Further conversations revealed that he was assuming ERW, not DOM.  And you'd have to make sure to show him the rule book, including the how not to fail tech guide.

His stuff is solid, safe and professionally done.  But it's 99% dirt track cars and 1% drag racing cars.

Let me know if you want a name and number.

A&D: 2011 Autobahn, 2012 Gingerman, 2012 Road America, 2012 Autobahn II
Building a car for the second half of 2013 under the auspices of:
Sir Jackie Stewart's Coin Purse Racing
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Re: So AutoPower bolt-in cages are out. What about their weld-in cages?

How about a Roll Cage Components tubing kit? I was thinking about one of those for our next car.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: So AutoPower bolt-in cages are out. What about their weld-in cages?

rmcdaniels wrote:

How about a Roll Cage Components tubing kit? I was thinking about one of those for our next car.

I heard good things about them.

Byte Marks Racing - "You knew the job was dangerous when you took it Fred."
2011:Campaign to Prevent Gingervitis 58th Place (blew engine), American Irony 23th Place, Showroom-Schlock Shootout 19th Place
2012:Campaign to Prevent Gingervitis 9th Place, Showroom-Schlock Shootout 5th place and B class winner, The Chubba Cheddar Enduro  (Yeah Baby!!!!), American Irony

Re: So AutoPower bolt-in cages are out. What about their weld-in cages?

BoB wrote:

Give Ed a call, He did ours and team resignations cage a couple years ago, never had an issue with tech.  I think he also welded up a cage for another team.  Good price, although I don't even want to offer a estimate since its been a while.

Ed Hast (Victory Lane)

12956 S Ashland
Blue Island, Il 60406 
708-785-1414

He also is really bad about answering the phone, so leave a message or 2.


Ed is a good guy but yeah he doesn't answer his phone.  You would be just as well as dropping by in the evening as to try calling him.  He works afternoons and evenings. He told me he's  sometimes at his shop until very late. You won't find any sign on the building either so knock on the door or with the warm weather he may have the door open.

Re: So AutoPower bolt-in cages are out. What about their weld-in cages?

Thanks for all the suggestions.  Will see what our guy comes back with (quote) and then see what some of these other guys want.

11

Re: So AutoPower bolt-in cages are out. What about their weld-in cages?

also, Jay was talking about a new rule for next year where the backstays need to terminate before the back tires.  Sounds like the rule won't go into effect until next year, but might as well make sure it is done that way now and not have to redo stuff next year again.

Racing 4 Nickels - 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
2011 SHOWROOM-SCHLOCK SHOOTOUT  IOE Winner
2012 The Chubba Cheddar Enduro Class C winner
Facebook Page

Re: So AutoPower bolt-in cages are out. What about their weld-in cages?

The back stay rule was mentioned to us also.  Our back stays are slightly on-top-of-behind the rear wheels in our E30.  They said it wouldn't fail, but made mention we could consider moving them forward.  I haven't measured angles, but we may get further from 45 degrees than desireable.  Nothing was said to us that it would be mandatory next year, but this is how new rules get started.

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.

Re: So AutoPower bolt-in cages are out. What about their weld-in cages?

Rear wheels? or rear axle? Just asking so I know if we will have to move ours for next year. I understand them having to terminate before the crumple zone, but I would think that would be at the axle.

Constructor/Owner/Driver - Billy Beer Ford Futura

Re: So AutoPower bolt-in cages are out. What about their weld-in cages?

BoB wrote:

also, Jay was talking about a new rule for next year where the backstays need to terminate before the back tires.  Sounds like the rule won't go into effect until next year, but might as well make sure it is done that way now and not have to redo stuff next year again.

Just to clarifly slightly, the way that Jay was explaining it to teams last weekend was that it is likely that later this year (I took that to mean effective 2013 season, but that's my take on it) the rules will change to clarify that the backstays need to terminate before the rearward-most point of the rear tires. In other words, if you drew a vertical plane perpendicular with the ground that is a tangent to the rearmost point on your rear tires, the backstays need to terminate before that point. For teams that are running Mac strut rear suspensions, the strong suggestion was that the backstays terminate somewhere in the vicinity of the front or top of the bodywork that contains the Mac struts. He did also note that exceptions/waivers may be granted on a case-by-case basis. For example, the #7 Hooters T-Bird has backstays that terminate near or beyond a point that would violate the possible rule change, but there is so much steel behind them on that frame that it would be entitled to a waiver.

The basis for this proposed change is the concern that if the backstays are too far back, they could become part of the crush structure and thus cause the entire cage to be pushed forward in the case of a hard hit from the rear or a hard back-into armco/tire wall/concrete, etc.

One thing regarding backstays that was made ABUNDANTLY clear (as if it's not already clear enough in the ruleset):NO BENDS in the backstays. None. Zero. Don't even think about it. The 45 degree rule is more of a "get close to this" rather than a hard and fast rule, but any bend in those backstays should result in an immediate tech failure.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing '67 SIMCA GLS 1000
"The SIMCA 1000 rear engined saloon is not a car which is going to be remembered in years to come for any particular reason.... It is not startling for its beauty, innovating with its design or particularly fast, economic or comfortable. However, it has been successful for SIMCA, especially in France."
--SIMCA 1000 Owners Workshop Manual, J.H. Haynes, 1973

Re: So AutoPower bolt-in cages are out. What about their weld-in cages?

We've got a HIGHLY modified Autopower bolt together that passed tech in NH.  Mods we've made include backstays that go to the rear strut towers, a harness bar, 360 degree welds on all junctions, larger spreader plates with the original spreaders welded to them and then the larger plates welded to the floor and NASCAR bars on the driver side that extend out into the door shell.

You don't HAVE to start over, but your cage won't much resemble the standard bolt-together when you're done.

Mod Squad Racing
http://twosrus.com

Re: So AutoPower bolt-in cages are out. What about their weld-in cages?

Since you are in Chicago another option is Lefthander Chassis.  They specialize in circle track stuff, but will bend a cage to your specs.  Best bet is to call them and ask.
https://www.lefthanderchassis.com/v2a/LHC_v2a.asp

If it doesn't have 2 doors, 3 pedals, and 5 lug nuts per wheel - It isn't a real race car

Re: So AutoPower bolt-in cages are out. What about their weld-in cages?

I was quoted 2600 to 2800 from a local fabricator. Ouch.

Re: So AutoPower bolt-in cages are out. What about their weld-in cages?

Anarchyjet wrote:

Since you are in Chicago another option is Lefthander Chassis.  They specialize in circle track stuff, but will bend a cage to your specs.  Best bet is to call them and ask.
https://www.lefthanderchassis.com/v2a/LHC_v2a.asp

Roscoe, IL is between Beloit, WI and Rockford, IL for those who don't know.  Birth place of one, Danica Patrick if I recall.

And, yes, Lefthander is a pretty well known name in circle track circles.

A&D: 2011 Autobahn, 2012 Gingerman, 2012 Road America, 2012 Autobahn II
Building a car for the second half of 2013 under the auspices of:
Sir Jackie Stewart's Coin Purse Racing
http://www.facebook.com/#!/SirJackieSte … urseRacing