151 Reply by Marc

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Re: version 3.0: The MR2 gets a gas turbine engine (Project Outline)

one down side of using the front is i won't have room for a fuel cell up there. the way this thing will suck fuel down, i may need the max capacity.

I'll have to talk to the powers that be to see if i can put an FIA cell in the passanger side of the car. it's against the rules but a waiver may be possible (not very hopeful since i believe this was likely instituted by the insurance company)

there's nothing against the rules to mount the fuel cells in the back with the turbines but i am not willing to do that.

we'll see. i still would not mind having the entire drivetrain "just in case"

  • From: Rockville, MD
  • Registered: 2010-12-15
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Re: version 3.0: The MR2 gets a gas turbine engine (Project Outline)

You can do an MRelica with a 2nd gen Celica front clip wink Or use a veedub front. Molf!

I thought that the center-mounted gas tank in the MR2 was over 10 gallons - is that not enough?...

Question: wouldn't thrust alone be enough to get you enough forward speed to use a regular snowmobile-style CVT without any extra motors? Or a pair of fat starter motors overvolted to 24v.

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153 Reply by Marc

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Re: version 3.0: The MR2 gets a gas turbine engine (Project Outline)

firegremlin wrote:

You can do an MRelica with a 2nd gen Celica front clip wink Or use a veedub front. Molf!

I thought that the center-mounted gas tank in the MR2 was over 10 gallons - is that not enough?...

Question: wouldn't thrust alone be enough to get you enough forward speed to use a regular snowmobile-style CVT without any extra motors? Or a pair of fat starter motors overvolted to 24v.

thrust from both turbines should be on the order of about 100lbs total (give or take a bit, but not an order of magnitude more) so it would likely move, but not get up to 20mph.

I do want the car to be able to be plated for regular street use. this also allows me to shut down the turbines a lap before coming in to let everything cool down a bit and not have to start the turbines till i'm in the hot-pits.

154 Reply by Marc (edited by Marc 2012-07-12 04:49 PM)

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Re: version 3.0: The MR2 gets a gas turbine engine (Project Outline)

oh and as for the 10gal tank, the burn rate on each turbine will be at least 10gal/hr and the diesel will probably consume 3gal/hr also. so, 23gal/hr or so. a 10gal tank would last about 26 minutes, about 20 once you figure for the reserve, or about 8-12 laps between refueling.

or more accurately, the car should burn about $90/hr in fuel.

  • From: Rockville, MD
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Re: version 3.0: The MR2 gets a gas turbine engine (Project Outline)

But that's full-throttle, right? Should last you a good hour, I'd think.

You could ask if you can widen the middle tunnel by cutting out the passenger side, moving it over a foot or so, and welding a sheet of steel on top - should make enough room for a 17" wide 22 gallon cell. Should be safer than just shoving it in the passenger seat and covering it with sheet metal - this way it's away from any impact zones and is covered by thick steel all around.

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156 Reply by Marc (edited by Marc 2012-07-13 08:03 AM)

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Re: version 3.0: The MR2 gets a gas turbine engine (Project Outline)

firegremlin wrote:

But that's full-throttle, right? Should last you a good hour, I'd think.

You could ask if you can widen the middle tunnel by cutting out the passenger side, moving it over a foot or so, and welding a sheet of steel on top - should make enough room for a 17" wide 22 gallon cell. Should be safer than just shoving it in the passenger seat and covering it with sheet metal - this way it's away from any impact zones and is covered by thick steel all around.

the turbines barely drop fuel consumption when not running full throttle. maybe 30 minutes max.

157 Reply by BoKu

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Re: version 3.0: The MR2 gets a gas turbine engine (Project Outline)

Marc, I think the engine in this salvage auction is a Rolls Royce copy of the Allison 250:

http://www.aigaviation.com/aviationsalv … ageId=1364

It's been mangled good and dunked, so the price might be in your range.

158 Reply by Marc

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Re: version 3.0: The MR2 gets a gas turbine engine (Project Outline)

BoKu wrote:

Marc, I think the engine in this salvage auction is a Rolls Royce copy of the Allison 250:

http://www.aigaviation.com/aviationsalv … ageId=1364

It's been mangled good and dunked, so the price might be in your range.

while i agree that it could be cheap & fun, i can't run that in good conscience. there's no telling what stress fracture will let go at the track. i'd rather use a harder to use motor that hasn't been shock cooled.

159 Reply by Marc

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Re: version 3.0: The MR2 gets a gas turbine engine (Project Outline)

killerken53 wrote:

Pm me, I might be able to help you out with a good 1.6 mechanical injected VW diesel. I am in western PA, and I can crate and ship freight with a little logistics.

Would it be easier to drop an entire VW FWD diesel engine/transmission/subframe assembly in the front of the MR2 and then not have to worry about moving the power through the turbine drive system?

I never got a reply back from the e-mail i sent out. did you receive my e-mail?

  • Registered: 2009-09-17
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Re: version 3.0: The MR2 gets a gas turbine engine (Project Outline)

Sorry, I have been busy. I will get back to you soon.

161 Reply by Marc

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Re: version 3.0: The MR2 gets a gas turbine engine (Project Outline)

killerken53 wrote:

Sorry, I have been busy. I will get back to you soon.

no problem, i'm not in a hurry to get the drivetrain, i just want to get the price so i can see if i need to keep looking or not.

Thanks!

162 Reply by tSoG

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Re: version 3.0: The MR2 gets a gas turbine engine (Project Outline)

I'm in north western PA, and headed to Road America. I also have a few VW diesel blocks to spare (even a few TD blocks, so you can get oil squirters for your pistons) just no injector pumps. hell, I might know of a whole VW diesel rabbit you could have for less than the engine on ebay, I'll ask about it tomorrow.

I'm a hell of a lot cheaper than shipping freight.

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163 Reply by Marc

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Re: version 3.0: The MR2 gets a gas turbine engine (Project Outline)

tSoG wrote:

I'm in north western PA, and headed to Road America. I also have a few VW diesel blocks to spare (even a few TD blocks, so you can get oil squirters for your pistons) just no injector pumps. hell, I might know of a whole VW diesel rabbit you could have for less than the engine on ebay, I'll ask about it tomorrow.

I'm a hell of a lot cheaper than shipping freight.

A complete engine would be great i don't really want to dig for missing parts, this project has enough complicated bits already. especially with delivery. if you can get a whole car for that kind of money and deliver it for a resonable price it would be fantastic! the shell will likely get used in the future anyways. with the right engine that's probably a class C runner which is great since my eventual goal is to get *ALL* the possible trophies at least once.

164 Reply by tSoG

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Re: version 3.0: The MR2 gets a gas turbine engine (Project Outline)

still haven't heard back. I've got everything and anything you would ever need, but the only spare pump i have is a fresh rebuild hmm

I do have a 200k mile block that needs a timing belt baaaaaad (stretched and chewed up but no piston/valve damage afaik). It was too cold to start, but ran ok warm. No idea if I'll have time to yank it out of the truck before RA though.

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165 Reply by Marc

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Re: version 3.0: The MR2 gets a gas turbine engine (Project Outline)

tSoG wrote:

still haven't heard back. I've got everything and anything you would ever need, but the only spare pump i have is a fresh rebuild hmm

I do have a 200k mile block that needs a timing belt baaaaaad (stretched and chewed up but no piston/valve damage afaik). It was too cold to start, but ran ok warm. No idea if I'll have time to yank it out of the truck before RA though.

i thought i had replied to this, but i don't see the reply on the forum.

anyways, i don't really want a new project out of this so i'll wait for a more complete motor. overall i'm not in a huge hurry so i can probably come across a good deal.

as far as the schedule go, the radial motor is shipping out this week, after the next chicago race i'm heading out to WA state to get some "how to not kill yourself with a turbine" training.  after that, the pair of tiernay turbines are coming home.

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2011-01-24
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Re: version 3.0: The MR2 gets a gas turbine engine (Project Outline)

Forgive me, as I am just now finding this thread.  Marc, you said it is a turboshaft engine, correct?  Was this originally an APU or a helicopter powerplant?

If it was a helicopter powerplant, the power takeoff turbine is on a different spool from the gas generator.  If this is the case, you should be able to take the output shaft and drive a differential.  a 2:1 stepdown box would improve torque, but it could be done direct drive as well. 

You would obviously throttle the engine, but would take time getting used to as the engine will not behave like a gasoline engine.  It would behave more like a large turbodiesel.

Speaking of Diesel, what fuel do you plan on running the turbine on?

All of this very well may have been covered already and I do apologize about that; but here at work, I don't have the luxury of reading the entire thread.  The boss probably wouldn't like that very much.

167 Reply by Marc

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Re: version 3.0: The MR2 gets a gas turbine engine (Project Outline)

Hardline wrote:

Forgive me, as I am just now finding this thread.  Marc, you said it is a turboshaft engine, correct?  Was this originally an APU or a helicopter powerplant?

If it was a helicopter powerplant, the power takeoff turbine is on a different spool from the gas generator.  If this is the case, you should be able to take the output shaft and drive a differential.  a 2:1 stepdown box would improve torque, but it could be done direct drive as well. 

You would obviously throttle the engine, but would take time getting used to as the engine will not behave like a gasoline engine.  It would behave more like a large turbodiesel.

Speaking of Diesel, what fuel do you plan on running the turbine on?

All of this very well may have been covered already and I do apologize about that; but here at work, I don't have the luxury of reading the entire thread.  The boss probably wouldn't like that very much.

it's unfortunately a pair of single spool stationary gen-set turbines. so they can't be directly coupled until higher RPM. i will play around with the exact RPM to see when i can bring extra power online, but the fact that i need the small pony motor to get up to a certain speed won't change.

i will be powering them with diesel. maybe with a bit of gasoline mixed in to cut down the smoke as recomended by a few people. but it has to be only a little so the diesel pony motor can still run. we need to run on only one fuel source for the vehicle to meet Lemons regulations.

168 Reply by Mulry

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Re: version 3.0: The MR2 gets a gas turbine engine (Project Outline)

Marc wrote:

we need to run on only one fuel source for the vehicle to meet Lemons regulations.

Plus the minor matter that an MR2 with three engines is plumb out of room for a spare fuel tank... smile

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169 Reply by Marc

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Re: version 3.0: The MR2 gets a gas turbine engine (Project Outline)

Mulry wrote:
Marc wrote:

we need to run on only one fuel source for the vehicle to meet Lemons regulations.

Plus the minor matter that an MR2 with three engines is plumb out of room for a spare fuel tank... smile

you could store at least 15gal of fuel in a wing like this:
http://image.circletrack.com/f/ultimateracing/ctrp_1011_sprint_car_wing_aerodynamics/30319219+pheader_460x1000/ctrp_1011_01+sprint_car_wing_aerodynamics+.jpg

170 Reply by Mulry

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Re: version 3.0: The MR2 gets a gas turbine engine (Project Outline)

LOL. So much wrong with that thus all the negatives self-cancel. Do it! smile

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  • From: Londonderry, NH
  • Registered: 2011-03-30
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Re: version 3.0: The MR2 gets a gas turbine engine (Project Outline)

Marc, now that you're going with the two smaller turbines you should definitely find a way to mount those puppies above the engine bay and outboard a bit, wrap some nacelles around them, and do a warthog theme:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cf/A-10_Thunderbolt_II_In-flight-2.jpg/800px-A-10_Thunderbolt_II_In-flight-2.jpg

Think of it as theme and free engine space all in one (power transmission be damned!).  Bonus points if you have a spinning model of the GAU-8 gatling gun jutting out of the front fascia.

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  • From: Aumsville, Oregon (Near Salem)
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Re: version 3.0: The MR2 gets a gas turbine engine (Project Outline)

tikibug wrote:

Bonus points if you have a working GAU-8 gatling gun jutting out of the front fascia.

FTFY

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173 Reply by x_25

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Re: version 3.0: The MR2 gets a gas turbine engine (Project Outline)

I don't know if you have ever thought of this (and it is a sudden idea, so implementing and such would take some figuring out!) but a differential driven backwards and with some sort of drag/speed controlling mechanism on the other side would let the turbine outputs spin at a constant RPM and give a variable output where the drive shaft would be.

Just throwing some crazy ideas out there.

174 Reply by Marc

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Re: version 3.0: The MR2 gets a gas turbine engine (Project Outline)

x_25 wrote:

I don't know if you have ever thought of this (and it is a sudden idea, so implementing and such would take some figuring out!) but a differential driven backwards and with some sort of drag/speed controlling mechanism on the other side would let the turbine outputs spin at a constant RPM and give a variable output where the drive shaft would be.

Just throwing some crazy ideas out there.

while the idea isn't terrible, the oversight is that the spider gears aren't designed for 100% duty cycle. the bearings can't handle the heat and quickly fail.

but that's effectively the same idea as what i'll be using. a planetary gearset provides reduction  as well as a clutch in one device. you bring the input in on the sun, the output is the planet carrier and you stop the ring gear when you want the power to be transmitted using a band clutch.

  • From: smack dab center of Florida
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Re: version 3.0: The MR2 gets a gas turbine engine (Project Outline)

here is a gear down system that might be a short term idea:

a 4WD transmission driven from the outout in low range it would probably overheat in under a minute but it would be adjustable from 3:1 in high range and all the way to 15:1 (random guess) for low range

just saw this and got me thinking http://ocala.craigslist.org/ptd/3251228781.html

http://images.craigslist.org/5E85Fb5H23K23G43N1c95b28da51c8cca1c4c.jpg