Topic: Okay, who can engineer an ignition system for me?

I'm tired of waiting on this. It's been well over a year that this project has been on hold due to lack of spark, and my plan to use it as the pace car at Summit was contingent on it having ignition again. My engineer buddy had it worked out in his head, but it didn't work on the car.

It needs to be a custom single crank trigger ignition for a 4 rotor inline carbed dual 12A. The stock dizzy holes were welded over. That means 4 leading and 4 trailing plugs, and I don't even know yet how (or if) the two are phased.

If you didn't understand that, this ain't the job for you.

Captain: Speedycop & The Gang Of Outlaws -'94 Mark VIII (Least Horrible Yank Tank Stafford '09, NOLA '10) '61 Caddy (Org Choice-NL '09) '63 Tbird (EPIC Repair Failure-Gingerman '10, I Got Screwed-Summit Pt '10, I.O.E. WINNER Stafford '10!) '77 Lancia Scorpion (I.O.E. WINNER Joliet 2010!) '67 Galaxie 500 (Judges Choice-CMP '11)
Future Fleet: 1957 Ford Prefect 1942 Buick 1959 Bugeye Project GLCOAT

Re: Okay, who can engineer an ignition system for me?

Is there already a trigger wheel and pickup on the e-shaft?   

    What system are you using?     
       

    Gross timing should be about 25 degrees  leading/trailing spread about 6 degrees.   

      Setting up a crank trigger ignition on a rotary is tough.

   -John

Gosh, my business card says 'Tech Tyrant'

3 (edited by EriktheAwful 2012-06-26 05:07 AM)

Re: Okay, who can engineer an ignition system for me?

Forgive me for forgetting, but are the engines phased together, or are they offset (i.e. do they hit TDC at the same time, 180 out, or something weirder)? You can run without a trailing ignition and it likely won't even be noticeable, and if the engines are TDC together or 180 out you can run a single MSD 6A triggering a pair of GM coils firing all the leading plugs at the same time. Set the crank to trigger at 8 degrees BTDC and 8 degrees BBDC and it'll run like a top.

I think.

It's been a long time since I tinkered with my RX-7's ignition.

Or you can take the front covers off both motors, machine the distributor holes back open and run 12A distributors.

Re: Okay, who can engineer an ignition system for me?

I haven't looked very deeply into the MSD solution (we run the stock dizzy and ignitors), but I'm curious how it would work if there's no e-shaft angle sensor.  The 12A normally uses the pickups in the dizzy to tell the igniters to fire. 

If the dizzy holes are welded over, they MUST have had some other way to trigger the plugs, maybe a later model angle sensor or something.   If you have that, you can run the MSD option.  If not, like Erik stated, you could re-isntall both dizzys and their associated ignitors and coils, which I think would be the simplest way (especially if you can find the parts for cheap).  If both motors are in-phase (both #1 rotors hitting TDC at the same time) you could probably just use one of the dizzys to trigger the ignitors, but you'd need both for spark distribution.  If they're out of phase, you might be able to get away with the same setup (just swap #1 and #2 leads if they're 180 degrees out of phase), but for simplicity's sake maybe use both independently for both triggering and spark.

Basically, unless you go with a fully aftermarket ignition, I think you would need two full systems (2 dizzys, 4 igniters, 4 coils, plugs wires, etc.).  But this is my first rotary car so I could be way off base; I'm sure the pros will correct me...

X-time loser (I'm tired of updating my sig after every race...)
Mazda 787b aka '75 914 - Org Choice @ The Ridge, 2015
BMW M1 Procar aka '80 RX-7 (retired) - Zero awards sad

Re: Okay, who can engineer an ignition system for me?

I have a trigger mod I want to try on the existing system - would you have time on Wednesday evening?

K Car Stalker

Re: Okay, who can engineer an ignition system for me?

I'm the one you need to talk to on this project, I can do any rotary ignition

Send me a email to c2rotart at gmail dot com

I need some pictures of the setup and I will help another rotary brother.

Team Sensory Assault

Re: Okay, who can engineer an ignition system for me?

^^^ This.

Inquiring minds want to know what the phase of the motors are and what is being used for the crank trigger.

As an aside, I want to see how the engines are mated.  Just cause.

Dangerous Banned Technology (NOLA 09), Judges Choice (Houston 2010), Organizers Choice (NOLA 2010), Most Heroic Fix (Dallas 2010), $100 from Jay's Pocket (Dallas 2010), Dangerous Homemade Technology (NOLA 2010), Ununhexium Legends of Lemons Status,  Index of Effluency (Dallas 2011), Most Heroic Fix - (Houston 2011), Index of Effluency (TWS - 2012), Organizers Choice (Dallas 2013)

Re: Okay, who can engineer an ignition system for me?

Alex, I won't be there (I work 6am to midnight), but you can feel free to go try it. We gotta figure out if they are phased, and how. I'm guessing compression tests?

Captain: Speedycop & The Gang Of Outlaws -'94 Mark VIII (Least Horrible Yank Tank Stafford '09, NOLA '10) '61 Caddy (Org Choice-NL '09) '63 Tbird (EPIC Repair Failure-Gingerman '10, I Got Screwed-Summit Pt '10, I.O.E. WINNER Stafford '10!) '77 Lancia Scorpion (I.O.E. WINNER Joliet 2010!) '67 Galaxie 500 (Judges Choice-CMP '11)
Future Fleet: 1957 Ford Prefect 1942 Buick 1959 Bugeye Project GLCOAT

Re: Okay, who can engineer an ignition system for me?

Team Sensory Assault wrote:

As an aside, I want to see how the engines are mated.  Just cause.

Usually, you put a candlelit dinner on the table, turn out the lights, and play some Barry Manilow.

Captain: Speedycop & The Gang Of Outlaws -'94 Mark VIII (Least Horrible Yank Tank Stafford '09, NOLA '10) '61 Caddy (Org Choice-NL '09) '63 Tbird (EPIC Repair Failure-Gingerman '10, I Got Screwed-Summit Pt '10, I.O.E. WINNER Stafford '10!) '77 Lancia Scorpion (I.O.E. WINNER Joliet 2010!) '67 Galaxie 500 (Judges Choice-CMP '11)
Future Fleet: 1957 Ford Prefect 1942 Buick 1959 Bugeye Project GLCOAT

Re: Okay, who can engineer an ignition system for me?

From the previous static-advance ignition system, I'd guesstimate that they're phased 90 degrees. As in, a spark every 90 degrees of the shaft revolution makes it run (if it ran on all four).

Do you work Thursday or Friday? I'll be far far away Friday but I can send Tolik with instructions and pre-cut, pre-wired everything. Thursday I have an open evening.

K Car Stalker

Re: Okay, who can engineer an ignition system for me?

I'll call you later.

Captain: Speedycop & The Gang Of Outlaws -'94 Mark VIII (Least Horrible Yank Tank Stafford '09, NOLA '10) '61 Caddy (Org Choice-NL '09) '63 Tbird (EPIC Repair Failure-Gingerman '10, I Got Screwed-Summit Pt '10, I.O.E. WINNER Stafford '10!) '77 Lancia Scorpion (I.O.E. WINNER Joliet 2010!) '67 Galaxie 500 (Judges Choice-CMP '11)
Future Fleet: 1957 Ford Prefect 1942 Buick 1959 Bugeye Project GLCOAT

Re: Okay, who can engineer an ignition system for me?

I know it isn't the best but for simplicity, run both engines the same

Rotor 1 and rotor 3
Rotor 2 and rotor 4

Team Sensory Assault

13 (edited by BigJoe 2012-09-07 06:16 PM)

Re: Okay, who can engineer an ignition system for me?

Barry Manilow... Really?

See that's why I don't drive Rotatory engines.

Not that there is anything wrong with it. .....

http://youtu.be/Oj3VphK9AMk

http://theindependent.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/jerry_seinfeld2.jpg

http://strumors.automobilemag.com/files/2012/08/Four-Wankel-Rotors-623x388.jpg

Re: Okay, who can engineer an ignition system for me?

I knew the now deceased builder. I inherited some of his tools and stuff. I may have a wiring diagram. Just recently found out the car was sold and just found this website. Any way to contact speedycop in person?

Re: Okay, who can engineer an ignition system for me?

Jeff (speedycop) posted in your other topic.

speedycop at comcast dot net, or 301 six7fiveeightthousand 6 for my cell

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We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
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We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.