26 (edited by Marc 2012-11-07 04:13 AM)

Re: The gas turbine powered MR2 build begins

oi, so it looks like there is a non significant difference between the RAV4 transfer case and the All-Trac transfer case. i heard that this was possible without custom machining so i think i'll look around a little more. perhaps there's a different year rav4 box that has the clearance for the V6 and the matching bolt pattern. as it is, i could use this box, but i'd rather a more bolt on solution.

*edit* it looks like the box i want is the manual transmission box from 2001-2005 and it'll bolt on directly, what i have is the auto box. no biggie, that's fixable.

Re: The gas turbine powered MR2 build begins

alright, that was easy. i've got the rav4 transfer case for a manual coming my way. it was a bit more than the $50 for the previous one, but not terrible considering how rare a manual transmission rav4 is.

Re: The gas turbine powered MR2 build begins

http://arenteipyrgou.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/1000x500px-ll-b2fdb6ac_lozgr_gif_collection_of_someone_eating_popcorn.gif

A&D: 2011 Autobahn, 2012 Gingerman, 2012 Road America, 2012 Autobahn II, 2013 Gator-O-Rama (True 24!)
Sir Jackie Stewart's Coin Purse Racing
2013 Chubba Cheddar Enduro - Organizer's Choice, 2014 Doing Time in Joliet
http://www.facebook.com/#!/SirJackieSte … urseRacing

Re: The gas turbine powered MR2 build begins

new transfer box arrived:

http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/AirplaneMR2/phase3/IMG_0668.JPG

it's rather silly, both are from the same year, the one on the right is for the manual trans, the one on the left is for the automatic trans.  internals are identical, only the flange changes.

why the heck would they change the pattern like that?


also, i just noticed it has a limited slip coupler hidden inside there and it's going to get in the way of the turbo sized axle shafts that i want to use. i'll disasemble and remove the offending parts. hopefully i don't need to machine the ID of that differential, i don't want to deal with that level of hardening that far inside a hole.

Re: The gas turbine powered MR2 build begins

http://arenteipyrgou.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/1000x500px-ll-b2fdb6ac_lozgr_gif_collection_of_someone_eating_popcorn.gif

Re: The gas turbine powered MR2 build begins

Marc wrote:

i don't want to deal with that level of hardening that far inside a hole.

That's what she said.

A&D: 2011 Autobahn, 2012 Gingerman, 2012 Road America, 2012 Autobahn II, 2013 Gator-O-Rama (True 24!)
Sir Jackie Stewart's Coin Purse Racing
2013 Chubba Cheddar Enduro - Organizer's Choice, 2014 Doing Time in Joliet
http://www.facebook.com/#!/SirJackieSte … urseRacing

Re: The gas turbine powered MR2 build begins

Racin_G73 wrote:
Marc wrote:

i don't want to deal with that level of hardening that far inside a hole.

That's what she said.

and you're just gonna leave the bit about "limited slip" alone?

Re: The gas turbine powered MR2 build begins

do we have any toyota techs in the house? the rav-4 box is being stubborn about disasembly and i can't figure out the jigsaw puzzle. there's a coupler that has to come off for the diff to come out but it does not want to come uncoupled.

it would be nice to have access to the factory dissasembly guide for the 2001 rav4 transfercase. i use the local dealer's if i go there but if someone has it online it would be better.

34 (edited by Brett85p 2012-11-11 08:49 PM)

Re: The gas turbine powered MR2 build begins

Some links here may be helpful http://www.rav4world.com/forums/96-4-3- … -work.html

Or maybe not, the diagrams are for 2006.

Apocalyptic Racing - Occupy Pit Lane racing
Racing the "Toylet" Toyota Celica powered by Chevrolet Ecotec.
16x Loser with the Celica. 5 times loser in other fine machines

Re: The gas turbine powered MR2 build begins

Maybe this link will help
http://www.sendspace.com/file/wkcyxe

2001-2002 rav4 repair manual.

Apocalyptic Racing - Occupy Pit Lane racing
Racing the "Toylet" Toyota Celica powered by Chevrolet Ecotec.
16x Loser with the Celica. 5 times loser in other fine machines

Re: The gas turbine powered MR2 build begins

yeah, the diagrams were easy to find. i've removed all the retaining bits and it looks like it wants to come apart. but i have to remove what they are calling the locking collar. it moves a bit with a brass drift but there's no way to hit it in the correct direction to make it come off.

downloading that full repair manual, we'll see where that goes. it'll take a few hours to download apparently.

Re: The gas turbine powered MR2 build begins

got the whole service manual from someone that put it on their google drive. downloaded much quicker.

apparently i'm supposed to use a slide hammer to get that collar off, i don't know why i did not think of that. i'll do it tonight.

Re: The gas turbine powered MR2 build begins

Very interesting project Marc!

I have an SW20 and also a Jetcat turbine (P20) in an R/C plane.  I never thought of merging the two though as it would seem difficult to harness the power from the turbine for automotive use.  Very cool engineering challenge though!  can I ask what turbines you plan to use?

Re: The gas turbine powered MR2 build begins

Quandry wrote:

Very interesting project Marc!

I have an SW20 and also a Jetcat turbine (P20) in an R/C plane.  I never thought of merging the two though as it would seem difficult to harness the power from the turbine for automotive use.  Very cool engineering challenge though!  can I ask what turbines you plan to use?

the challenge, fame and women is why i'm doing this smile

i'm using a pair of tiernay tt10 turbines.

here's one with a can beside it for scale:
http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/AirplaneMR2/phase3/IMG_0030.jpg

it's 21" long

Re: The gas turbine powered MR2 build begins

HOLY SHIZZ!  that is big.  My P20 is smaller than the coke can in that picture. 

Still after seeing you shoe horn a WWII radial in to an MR2 I'm guessing you will find a way to make them fit smile

Kudos!

Re: The gas turbine powered MR2 build begins

Quandry wrote:

HOLY SHIZZ!  that is big.  My P20 is smaller than the coke can in that picture. 

Still after seeing you shoe horn a WWII radial in to an MR2 I'm guessing you will find a way to make them fit smile

Kudos!

the goal is 2 turbines, 1 piston engine, 2 transmissions and a bunch of intermediate drivetrain all in the back of an MR2. the engine bay is about 45" wide and 55" long.

it's a *BIG* engine bay.

Re: The gas turbine powered MR2 build begins

Marc wrote:

the goal is 2 turbines, 1 piston engine, 2 transmissions and a bunch of intermediate drivetrain all in the back of an MR2. the engine bay is about 45" wide and 55" long.

it's a *BIG* engine bay.

And a pinch of "it's crazy enough, it just might work!"  Maybe more than a pinch smile

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67
https://youtu.be/qmf9JkedPR8

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

Re: The gas turbine powered MR2 build begins

alright, the slide hammer did the trick. i can't believe the effort toyota went to seal these two boxes from each other yet they share fluid through the transmission's pump and distribution system. there's a half dozen o-rings and seals in the middle.

i was also able to confirm the gear ratio with a 41 tooth ring and a 14 tooth pinion 2.929 which will work great. it'll allow me to have to run only one additional reduction at the output of the turbines from 12k to about 7 or 8k depending on which exact transmission setup i go with. with every reduction step in the same direction it should be much better than the radial setup was.

Re: The gas turbine powered MR2 build begins

The turbines have arrived!!!!

here they are next to the E153 transmission i'm using for the build
http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/AirplaneMR2/phase3/IMG_0003.JPG
http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/AirplaneMR2/phase3/IMG_0004.JPG

Re: The gas turbine powered MR2 build begins

oh and now i need 24V worth of batteries to crank them!

Re: The gas turbine powered MR2 build begins

oh wow, it turns out that having a 24V starter on a 12V truck is not that uncommon

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Series-Parallel … mp;vxp=mtr

47 (edited by Marc 2012-11-14 04:37 PM)

Re: The gas turbine powered MR2 build begins

well, those fancy parallel/series solenoids are *VERY* expensive. so i spent some time designing a better solution:

http://www.frankensteinmotorworks.com/AirplaneMR2/phase3/12-24V%20start.jpg

the solenoids look like this:
http://www.usautoelectric.com/image_manager/attributes/image/image_55/1097954152_4240793467.JPG

they have a normally open and a normally closed side.

Re: The gas turbine powered MR2 build begins

alright, the last  part  i was needing to be able to modify the transmission to make it AWD-ish got here, it's the coupler on the left:

http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/AirplaneMR2/phase3/IMG_0016.JPG

it gets the spiders gear cut off, and then welded on the differential in this orientation:
http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/AirplaneMR2/phase3/IMG_0018.JPG

and then the whole thing stacks up like this:
http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/AirplaneMR2/phase3/IMG_0019.JPG

the bottom of that last picture is the differential inside the E153 transmission, the top looks like a differential but isn't. it normally contains a limited slip unit that i need to remove to fit the axle shaft through the center. the proper diff still has a limited slip, the one on the transfer case is actually the center differential's limited slip. kinda complicated to explain but it's really neat! but not needed since mine will be locked in.

so to recap, the gear on the bottom meshes with the counter shaft in the transmission and connects the V6 power to the differential. then, the hypoid gear at the top of that picture receives power from the jet turbines and pushes it strait into the differential case to send power to the ground.

the weld there will be super critical so i'll ask my friend that does this for a living to take care of it. i want this to be more reliable than the radial car.

Re: The gas turbine powered MR2 build begins

Lots of pre-heat during welding will lower the cooling rate and limit the amount of hardening in the weld metal. If possible, a local post-weld temper (induction heating is the fancy-pants way) would greatly improve the finished strength, but tempering of any kind obviously gets you into possible runout issues. You might be able to limit distortion by building a jig for the part that clamps it tight during welding AND tempering and holds the axis vertical.

Command Pilot/Flight Director, Escape Velocity Racing
Index of Effluency, Heroic Fix, Class C Trophy, now hopelessly gunning for Class B.
Currently 1-2 vs. Team Fairlylame in the Class of 1964 Championships

Re: The gas turbine powered MR2 build begins

SpaceFrank wrote:

Lots of pre-heat during welding will lower the cooling rate and limit the amount of hardening in the weld metal. If possible, a local post-weld temper (induction heating is the fancy-pants way) would greatly improve the finished strength, but tempering of any kind obviously gets you into possible runout issues. You might be able to limit distortion by building a jig for the part that clamps it tight during welding AND tempering and holds the axis vertical.

which is why i'm going to leave it to the guy that does it for a living and has a metalurgy degree smile

but honestly, it's a huge diameter compared to the 150HP that will be going through it. i don't believe there will be issues with it.