Re: This time FX16 + MR2

can i suggest a 3.0L V6 in the rear? they fit nicely in the MKI chassis and put about 200hp to the ground with a manual transmission

Re: This time FX16 + MR2

and another in the front?

Team OK-Speed
Regularly losing in Class A
Soon to start losing in Class C

Re: This time FX16 + MR2

Our imaginations run wild with swap ideas all the time. I like the idea of a pair of 2ZZs that should net about 360 HP to the ground while lightening the car. If muscle were priority I'd try to get a pair of turbo 3SGTEs for something like 480 to over 500 HP with only a small weight penalty, though that would be easier to accomplish by building a car out of a second gen MR2 and Celica which both had that engine as an OEM option.

A reality is with both engines running, we don't consider lack of power a problem.

Another reality is we run the engines stock. I'd consider building, tuning, or adding forced induction before swapping to larger engines.

OEM 4AGE engines remian our standard though. They litter Bender's shop, and are cheap and easy to find. There is a huge benefit to have spare parts that fit any of the 4 engines we will have on track.

Re: This time FX16 + MR2

it's hard to argue with having 4 of the same engine at the track when it comes to spares.

celica MR2 you say? smile

Re: This time FX16 + MR2

Day 8: We have the rear end and passenger side welded up nicely. Inspected and replaced seals on an engine the will likely be our spare for the march race.

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/random_tox/Blog%20and%20forum%20pics/fx3204_zpseaf2ff65.png

I'm a little out of practice but my welds will hold.
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/random_tox/Blog%20and%20forum%20pics/20130209_163726_zps4bcd799d.jpg

Bender was doing much better on the more critical structures.
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/random_tox/Blog%20and%20forum%20pics/fx3207_zpsac5f4a71.png

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/random_tox/Blog%20and%20forum%20pics/fx3205_zps96ec436a.png

Re: This time FX16 + MR2

Had great momentum at the shop today, but were cut a little short by running out of welding wire. Before then we accomplished much.

Almost done mating the MR2 center tunnel to the FX16 firewall.
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/random_tox/Blog%20and%20forum%20pics/fx3212_zps5d4db0c8.jpg

Cage spreader plates and some mating structure are in place at there rear towers/pillars.
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/random_tox/Blog%20and%20forum%20pics/fx3213_zps8a17b235.jpg

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/random_tox/Blog%20and%20forum%20pics/fx3216_zps80d75fc4.jpg

Plug welds mate the FX16 hull to the inner MR2 arches. (Was actually done last week but forgot to photograph them.)
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/random_tox/Blog%20and%20forum%20pics/fx3218_zps914724bd.jpg

Max, the shop cat makes appears briefly while the power tools fall momentarily silent.
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/random_tox/Blog%20and%20forum%20pics/fx3219_zps740631b3.jpg

Re: This time FX16 + MR2

We had a big 3-day weekend at Bender's shop. Cage is done except the harness bar. Rear engine is mounted and ready for connections.

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/random_tox/Blog%20and%20forum%20pics/fx32_zpsc887ecfe.jpg

33 (edited by Mulry 2013-02-19 01:41 PM)

Re: This time FX16 + MR2

Larry, have you ever given any thought to going with dual automatics? I would normally say that's a heresy in a race car, but with the dual-motor cars, I don't think there's anything orthodox enough to validate the concept of heresy.

Oh, while I'm thinking about it, remember when we talked about putting some sort of bar or manual lockout to physically bar the auto tranny from accidentally getting shifted past N into R (or P!) if you had to get out of D in a hurry? If you haven't done that, you might want to add that to the surely-shrinking list of things to do. smile

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67
https://youtu.be/qmf9JkedPR8

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

Re: This time FX16 + MR2

^^^^^^

Yeah Pat, we’ve given it much thought actually.

I’m convinced it would be the best acceleration performance because there would be no release from the accelerator pedal for shifting,  and it would not be hard to arrange different shift points for even more seamless acceleration. The control configuration could be simplified or even joined to one lever. My favorite argument to double automatics is that it eliminates the problems and complexities created for a kick-down mechanism by combining an automatic and 5 speed with the same accelerator pedal.

There are several reasons to stick with a manual/auto combo, primarily that it is more fun to drive. Sans engine braking, brakes would work harder. Automatics are significantly heavier, contributing further to brake wear and reduced handling. We suspect the automatics will be less durable. Automatics that are native to the 4AGE engine have not been easy to locate, have more advanced control systems, and a unique gauge cluster. The MRolla actually  runs a simpler automatic from a 1990ish Prizm. This new build will be running a legit MR2 4AGE automatic in the back.

I’m curious to try it but Bender is unenthusiastic. Not a remote priority.

We’re not worried about restricting the automatic lever positions. We just train drivers to be deliberate anytime they grab that lever.

Re: This time FX16 + MR2

The cage is in. Here's some detail showing how we join the frame, then reinforce with the cage mounting structure.

This is the joint of the MR2 and FX frames.
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/random_tox/Blog%20and%20forum%20pics/DSCN9224_zps33a3556c.jpg

we plate the seem and reinforce the floor.
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/random_tox/Blog%20and%20forum%20pics/DSCN9257_zps8720e19d.jpg

Then build a box to mount the cage.
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/random_tox/Blog%20and%20forum%20pics/DSCN9268_zpsa01969b9.jpg

Drivers foot well.
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/random_tox/Blog%20and%20forum%20pics/DSCN9343_zpsaba6b86a.jpg

Door bars bent out to fit the door skin.
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/random_tox/Blog%20and%20forum%20pics/DSCN9346_zpsbe1bd282.jpg

Re: This time FX16 + MR2

Got a good start on the rear radiator compartment today.

Scoops:
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/random_tox/Blog%20and%20forum%20pics/DSCN9356_zpsc84e03af.jpg

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/random_tox/Blog%20and%20forum%20pics/DSCN9359_zps82c0d1f2.jpg

Not mounted yet but this will be the radiator position:
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/random_tox/Blog%20and%20forum%20pics/DSCN9365_zps6ab0883e.jpg

Re: This time FX16 + MR2

We've been hard at work, but progress has been a little frustrating. Still have not started the engines with the race ready deadline just two weeks out. We've logged 22 shop days, most with very long hours, and are now coming in some evenings during the week. Despite being more time consuming that expected, spirits and motivation are pretty high. Nobody has started throwing tools yet. We're planning a work night tomorrow and expect to get the beastie running.

We're bottle-necked at the wiring, but almost done. OEM harnesses will be used pretty much unmodified for front and rear cars. The front is all still mostly in place. The rear gauges, ECU, and injection are mostly reconnected. Both front and rear fuel pump and fuel gauge connections are handy so we can switch connections if necessary.

Otherwise kill switches are in, shift light (for front engine only) is in, exhaust is done, seat done, fuel pump is done, rear radiator plumbed, rear oil and ATF coolers pumbed, rear engine connected and ready, cockpit fully sealed from the rear engine bay (just need to pop in MR2 rear window glass), brakes done, we have junkyard Volvo and Audi springs installed...

Rear compartment plumbed.
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/random_tox/Blog%20and%20forum%20pics/DSCN6086_zpsffa9a578.jpg

Closing the gap between MR2 roof and FX ceiling.
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/random_tox/Blog%20and%20forum%20pics/a_zps261ede2e.jpg

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/random_tox/Blog%20and%20forum%20pics/DSCN9370_zps5670c265.jpg

Wrestling wiring harnesses.
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/random_tox/Blog%20and%20forum%20pics/aa_zpsecc4c4d2.jpg

Re: This time FX16 + MR2

Mulry wrote:

...accidentally getting shifted past N into R (or P!) if you had to get out of D in a hurry?

That could NEVER happen...oh, wait...it happened to us.  I had to remind our driver that "R" did not stand for "Racing."  Happened at ~80 mph too.

30 Time Loser with Class C, Index of Effluency, I got Screwed and Heroic Fix Trophies who usually races, according to Car and Driver, The Greatest Road Racing Cherokee in History.

Check out our FB Page and follow our various exploits.

Re: This time FX16 + MR2

TeamPettyCash wrote:
Mulry wrote:

...accidentally getting shifted past N into R (or P!) if you had to get out of D in a hurry?

That could NEVER happen...oh, wait...it happened to us.  I had to remind our driver that "R" did not stand for "Racing."  Happened at ~80 mph too.

Yeah Matt, it was remembering our conversation at Sears Point last year that prompted my suggestion. I meant to mention it to Larry & Paul last year but I think it slipped my mind then.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67
https://youtu.be/qmf9JkedPR8

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

Re: This time FX16 + MR2

I've been neglecting detail photos so caught up on a few. Here's there rear radiator compartment.
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/random_tox/Blog%20and%20forum%20pics/DSCN0004a_zps8c632862.jpg

Side scoop that draws in to the radiator and other fluid coolers.
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/random_tox/Blog%20and%20forum%20pics/DSCN00023a_zps0d345877.jpg

Gauges.
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/random_tox/Blog%20and%20forum%20pics/DSCN0012_zps0b3aa5db.jpg

Kill switches.
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/random_tox/Blog%20and%20forum%20pics/DSCN0015_zps2dc6ad85.jpg

One bad problem: Bender poured in water and it poured right back out the engine water pump. You can see it hitting the floor here. The pump is redundant to our electric pump, but we at least need it to seal.
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/random_tox/Blog%20and%20forum%20pics/DSCN0170_zps20b86710.jpg

Re: This time FX16 + MR2

But the development tonight is that the engines are running. Much to do still, but we are enjoying a moment of success. He're the vid.

http://youtu.be/kb3ziq81FMM

Re: This time FX16 + MR2

Larry, is that a silvertop or a straight 4AGE? If it's a silvertop, I probably have a spare water pump if you need one.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67
https://youtu.be/qmf9JkedPR8

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

43 (edited by random_tox 2013-03-06 09:38 PM)

Re: This time FX16 + MR2

^^^^^
It's a smallport. Thanks for the offer. Since we are running a primary electric water pump, the on-board pump is not that important. It's leaking out the bleeder. We think we can just seal it and run.

44 (edited by Mulry 2013-03-06 10:40 PM)

Re: This time FX16 + MR2

Sounds good. I think I have one of those water pumps around here too somewhere if you can't get the weep to seal.

Now that I think of it, I think I remember seeing how somebody cored out one of those once upon a time. They were using an electric water pump too but they took the stock water pump body and removed the impeller from it and just used the housing so that the water flow was directed properly. I'm guessing that they just welded up the body or put a block-off plate where the impeller shaft went through to the pulley attachment. You would need a shorter belt since you wouldn't be driving both the water pump and the alternator, but if worst comes to worst, that's an alternative for you too.

Man, I so wish I was going to be with you guys at Sears. Argh.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67
https://youtu.be/qmf9JkedPR8

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

Re: This time FX16 + MR2

Huge day. Got MUCH accomplished and actually did a brief road test. I didn't take time to snap many photos aside from the time lapse.

The electrical stuff looked like this in the morning. I had made some progress on it an evening this week. By the end of the day the shifters and radio were mounted, harness in, seat cover on... Looking more like a something to drive.

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/random_tox/Blog%20and%20forum%20pics/DSCN0001_zpsfe257c10.jpg

We had delayed mounting hood and doors because it's easier to work without them. We needed them on for street testing though.
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/random_tox/Blog%20and%20forum%20pics/DSCN0179_zpsa2aad827.jpg

This was the first time since the project began that the car was together, on its wheels, and out of the shop so I could stand back and see it. I LOVE it! I'll be sad when we paint over all that chaos.
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/random_tox/Blog%20and%20forum%20pics/DSCN0472_zpscbaa7c13.jpg

Again, I was too busy to shoot many photos. Tomorrow I'll try to get some good ones.

Re: This time FX16 + MR2

http://asklogo.com/images/N/new%20united%20motor%20manufacturing%20logo.jpg

I think it needs a NUMMI theme.

Re: This time FX16 + MR2

^^^^^
That would be brilliant! We're already moving on a joint theme for the FX and the MRolla. I don't know if we could recover the 12 bucks we've invested if we change up now.

Re: This time FX16 + MR2

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/random_tox/DSCN6107_zps105a585e.jpg

It's starting to be done-ish. We had to swap out a bad tachometer, mounted shifters, radio extinguisher bracket, rear cabin window, camera mount, and tied down the wiring.

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/random_tox/DSCN6117_zps6f185672.jpg

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/random_tox/DSCN6113_zpsc9b59e8a.jpg

Re: This time FX16 + MR2

We've been road testing a bit. Saturday night was the first and revealed a lot of problems. I was pretty worried but they turned out to be pretty minor. Loose alternator belt. An arcing wire. Transmission fluid levels. The last test Sunday night was, in a syllable, WOW. Unfortunately I got lots of footage of failed tests, but none of the good test. I'll remedy that soon.

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/random_tox/DSCN6093_zps7c956340.jpg

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/random_tox/DSCN60902_zps70558291.jpg

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/random_tox/DSCN60892_zpsca64b9e6.jpg

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/random_tox/DSCN00016_zps62ff046f.jpg

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/random_tox/DSCN6095_zps58eef28c.jpg

50 (edited by Marc 2013-03-12 12:55 PM)

Re: This time FX16 + MR2

is that romex for the kill switch wiring?

so how's it drive with two different transmissions?