1 (edited by RogueLeader 2013-05-13 01:29 PM)

Topic: Farfrumwinnin living up to its name at Loudon

Wow, what a shitshow that weekend was.

So short version of a long story you all know anyway we blew up at Monticello (engine and trans), I rebuilt the car 2 weeks ago where it blew up again immediately because the block was damaged, so then I had the brilliant idea of upgrading to a very rare Audi 3A 2.0 liter engine (since I had to replace the block anyway).  Which... in 10 not even full practice laps proceeded to break the skirt on a piston  (due to a faulty fuel injector) while I was still sorting out transmission issues.  The Keystone Kops didn't believe me when I said I could have the head off the car in under 40 minutes (especially after we had been doing shots of Limoncello, and drinking vodka spiked Lemonade all evening, and some beers), so I took them up on the challenge and had that thing off in under 30 minutes!  Guess I work better when drinking.

Finding a replacement for that engine in NH is next to impossible, or just even a replacement piston, so we found what I thought was a 93 Fox motor ready to drop in on car-part.com.  I found out when I got there that instead it was three 89 Fox motors, they were far from drop in ready, and they were all the old style mechanical fuel Injection.  As I was perplexed by the fact that someone would actually save these boat anchors, I plunked down $200 for the only one he could "get down from the shelf before Monday".  All three had 3 inches of dust, but luckily the Loudon monsoon took care of that on my drive back.

I got back to the track at about 1:30 PM (by dumb luck I had found a parts house that actually had a head gasket for it too), and went to work.  By 11 PM we had the new engine assembled with the old head/intake etc and in the car but it wouldn't start, and we were shot.  Next morning until about 1:30 PM we messed with timing, wiring, spark plugs, and replaced the bad injector, after blowing it out didn't help, using a slightly bigger one borrowed from our cellmates the Swedish Mafia.  We had gotten it started a few times but it ran like shit and made no power.  I got stuck on the hill once and learned that the push truck driver has very poor bedside manner.  We eventually figured it out (thanks to Dan from the Swedish Mafia) after running back and forth to VW Fox drivetrain guru Judge Rich 500 times and were back on track by 2, nursing some shift linkage problems.  But we got it running and we finished!  It probably would have run right about an hour or so earlier If I had the plug wires on in the right order.  I was so delirious that when were messing around I flipped 2 and 3.

And the pièce de résistance, winning Heroic Fix after all of that.

Just want to thank everyone that came by and helped, and especially everyone that cheered when we finally got it running, when we made some laps, and when they saw us come through the finish.  The response we got was like we had won the race, which made a horrible weekend pretty damn good.  Would like to specifically shout out to Judge Rich for all his help, the guys with the 944 Porsche for the boatload of advice they gave and contacts as well, the Swedish Mafia for being great friends and garage mates and providing us with help and tools and a fuel injector and food even while their motor blew up too (but they were way more prepared than us), The Keystone Kops for the help and advice and liquid motivation and engine hoist, Bill Danger and the Road Hazards for being great friends on and off the track and also helping us modify our distributor so it would work with  the older style engine, Team Pro Crash Duh Nation for also being great friends and providing a great meal every race, and I'm sure I'm forgetting a bunch more people who came by and leant a hand or food or advice or a clamp or whatever.  It was a paddock wide effort.  Its why I love Lemons!

Unfortunately Farfrumwinnin will be taking a break from the next 2 east coast races (Summit and NJMP).  We just can't keep going to races and blowing up like this, so we are gonna take some time and disassemble the car and figure out what the hell is going on with it and get it back together for the next Loudon race.  Thanks again everyone for all your help and support!

Tom Lomino - Proud to be a 23x Lemons Loser, 3x Class B, and 1x IOE Winner!
Craptain, Team Farfrumwinnin - 1995 Volkswagen Golf #14
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Re: Farfrumwinnin living up to its name at Loudon

That sucks. It was detonation from running lean that broke the skirt?

Could you use an ABA block under the 3A head? The only thing i think that would be an issue is the distributor and the extra engine height of the taller ABA.  If you cant use the ABA distributor they sell a cheap distributor adapter ring to make an older distributor work in an ABA. These ABA engines are a dime a dozen (look at a '95 golf with a 2.0 on car-part)
I have had these turbocharged with a junkyard engine that started with "60k", 300hp on 93 octane. One lasted 8 vw 020 transmissions (80,000 miles) before the top of a piston separated at the top ring. The top of the piston separated from the skirt.

The ABA head gasket (if it fits) is the way to go if you've been having head gasket issues. Its a multi layer steel gasket and its cheap.

Are you having cooling issues?  Our audi 5 cylinder had severe cooling issues until we ducted the radiator to the front grill/bumper.  Our first race dumped all the coolant and the engine oil was 405'F at the oil filter and head.  Melted the plastic windage tray in the oil pan.  Next race we shattered the #1 piston.  I think the poorly designed fuel rail in our car kept air in it leaving the #1 cylinder air bound as it got burps of air from the gas tank.

-Killer B's (as in rally) '84 4000Q 4.2V8. Audis never win?

Re: Farfrumwinnin living up to its name at Loudon

jrbe wrote:

That sucks. It was detonation from running lean that broke the skirt?

Could you use an ABA block under the 3A head? The only thing i think that would be an issue is the distributor and the extra engine height of the taller ABA.  If you cant use the ABA distributor they sell a cheap distributor adapter ring to make an older distributor work in an ABA. These ABA engines are a dime a dozen (look at a '95 golf with a 2.0 on car-part)
I have had these turbocharged with a junkyard engine that started with "60k", 300hp on 93 octane. One lasted 8 vw 020 transmissions (80,000 miles) before the top of a piston separated at the top ring. The top of the piston separated from the skirt.

The ABA head gasket (if it fits) is the way to go if you've been having head gasket issues. Its a multi layer steel gasket and its cheap.

Are you having cooling issues?  Our audi 5 cylinder had severe cooling issues until we ducted the radiator to the front grill/bumper.  Our first race dumped all the coolant and the engine oil was 405'F at the oil filter and head.  Melted the plastic windage tray in the oil pan.  Next race we shattered the #1 piston.  I think the poorly designed fuel rail in our car kept air in it leaving the #1 cylinder air bound as it got burps of air from the gas tank.

I don't think it was running lean I think the injector failed, because it was only cylinder 3 that crapped out, and we tried the injector in a different spot and it didn't seem to be working the second time around as well.  We moved it from position 3 to 1, and ran it, then pulled the plug wire and it ran the same. 

The head we are using is the Fox head on a 3A block.  Honestly theres a good chance the 3A block is destroyed because for the amount of money to get the bore fixed and replace the piston, its probably not worth it.  We may go ABA next time around as the 95 and older ones have forged rods and crank.  The Fox head will work on it, and we will go MLS head gasket.  Our gasket problems have been usually due to dumb cooling failures (like upper rad hose failing).   I have the distributor adaptor, we needed it for the 3A.  Maybe we need to go with better injectors, the Fox ones are 15lb, maybe it was not enough fuel, but I think that injector just crapped out or clogged for good.

Otherwise the car runs cold, we never have a problem in that area.  I have 5 months to figure out some sort of plan.  Damage assessment is this weekend.

Tom Lomino - Proud to be a 23x Lemons Loser, 3x Class B, and 1x IOE Winner!
Craptain, Team Farfrumwinnin - 1995 Volkswagen Golf #14
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Re: Farfrumwinnin living up to its name at Loudon

I'm glad to hear you're coming back for Hooptiefest. Sorry none of my Merkur parts fit the VW. Take a break and if at all possible, just putter away a little at a time over the summer. If for some weird reason there's a part you need picked up in NH, let me know.

You certainly won the Lee Press On Disirregardlessly award!

5 (edited by RThodal 2013-05-13 08:47 PM)

Re: Farfrumwinnin living up to its name at Loudon

Hey sorry to see you guys had issues. I need a new engine for the Nisaab so I'm probably going to be walking all the PA u pull it yards including Harry's Allentown, Pennsburg and Hazleton as well as Joe's EZ pull and Greble U-Pull to find a candidate. I don't know VW/Audi but if you can give me a list of years/models you're looking for I can keep an eye out for a match and shoot you a picture if I find something. Engines are typically $65-100.

Team Rust in The Wind #301
1987 Nissan 300zx 2.3L Saab Turbo
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Re: Farfrumwinnin living up to its name at Loudon

fiasco wrote:

I'm glad to hear you're coming back for Hooptiefest. Sorry none of my Merkur parts fit the VW. Take a break and if at all possible, just putter away a little at a time over the summer. If for some weird reason there's a part you need picked up in NH, let me know.

You certainly won the Lee Press On Disirregardlessly award!

Thanks for the help!  It would have been amazing if a Merkur part DID fit the VW lol.  In the end we used an injector from the Volvo, it was a little stronger but it worked.

RThodal wrote:

Hey sorry to see you guys had issues. I need a new engine for the Nisaab so I'm probably going to be walking all the PA u pull it yards including Harry's Allentown, Pennsburg and Hazleton as well as Joe's EZ pull and Greble U-Pull to find a candidate. I don't know VW/Audi but if you can give me a list of years/models you're looking for I can keep an eye out for a match and shoot you a picture if I find something. Engines are typically $65-100.

We love your car its so fast, looks like a blast to drive.  I may take you up on that offer as those ares are only a couple hours drive from me, and may be worth the drive depending on the deal.  I'll send you an email.  Thanks!

Tom Lomino - Proud to be a 23x Lemons Loser, 3x Class B, and 1x IOE Winner!
Craptain, Team Farfrumwinnin - 1995 Volkswagen Golf #14
Click here to "Like" us on Facebook   Click here for our Youtube Videos
Lifetime Achievement (of hopelessness) Award Winners

Re: Farfrumwinnin living up to its name at Loudon

Was there detonation marks on the spark plug or piston or did they just get destroyed? A blocked injector will not cause a broken piston but a partially blocked/low flowing injector can cause lean conditions that can lead to detonation.
Injectors are strange, at low pulsewidths it can not fire if its shot but can start spraying once the pulsewidth is upped a bit.  The other things i've seen cause issues like this is spark plug wires zip tied together (spark hops to the wrong cylinder) and distributor misadjustment. The rotor's leading edge being too close to the cylinder ahead distributor "pin" and it jumping to that cylinder.  On the 3B audi engines they bend rods at higher hp levels from spark jump and bend rods. They have a special narrow rotor for them but a better fix is to reclock the trigger wheel slightly to get the rotor just pointing at its correct cylinder at about 10 degrees and 40 degrees so the spark is less likely to jump to the wrong cylinder. This gets tricky because the ecu wants to see the window(s) at certain times so its a mixture of geting the rotor right and getting the trigger wheel to line up at tdc for proper signal timing.
BTW, getting injectors cleaned can be a false sense of the injectors are ok.  They only test at half and full flow, not at low flow.  I have seen injectors test perfectly in the normal test but not flow fuel at all below 3ms where the other injectors that were ok fired right down to around 1ms.

-Killer B's (as in rally) '84 4000Q 4.2V8. Audis never win?

Re: Farfrumwinnin living up to its name at Loudon

jrbe wrote:

Was there detonation marks on the spark plug or piston or did they just get destroyed? A blocked injector will not cause a broken piston but a partially blocked/low flowing injector can cause lean conditions that can lead to detonation.
Injectors are strange, at low pulsewidths it can not fire if its shot but can start spraying once the pulsewidth is upped a bit.  The other things i've seen cause issues like this is spark plug wires zip tied together (spark hops to the wrong cylinder) and distributor misadjustment. The rotor's leading edge being too close to the cylinder ahead distributor "pin" and it jumping to that cylinder.  On the 3B audi engines they bend rods at higher hp levels from spark jump and bend rods. They have a special narrow rotor for them but a better fix is to reclock the trigger wheel slightly to get the rotor just pointing at its correct cylinder at about 10 degrees and 40 degrees so the spark is less likely to jump to the wrong cylinder. This gets tricky because the ecu wants to see the window(s) at certain times so its a mixture of geting the rotor right and getting the trigger wheel to line up at tdc for proper signal timing.
BTW, getting injectors cleaned can be a false sense of the injectors are ok.  They only test at half and full flow, not at low flow.  I have seen injectors test perfectly in the normal test but not flow fuel at all below 3ms where the other injectors that were ok fired right down to around 1ms.

It just got destroyed.  Based on what the guys from the Kops who came by to help said they said the cylinder looked like it leaned out.  I don't think it was a spark problem as we have looms on the wires and I take care to make sure they aren't together like that. 

As for the injectors at this point I trust none of them so they are all getting the heave.

Tom Lomino - Proud to be a 23x Lemons Loser, 3x Class B, and 1x IOE Winner!
Craptain, Team Farfrumwinnin - 1995 Volkswagen Golf #14
Click here to "Like" us on Facebook   Click here for our Youtube Videos
Lifetime Achievement (of hopelessness) Award Winners

Re: Farfrumwinnin living up to its name at Loudon

I will humbly suggest that you change cars, preferably to one where motors are unicorns.  wink

Jer / Schumacher Taxi Service
2010 Spring CMP I.O.E. winner
2010 Sebring overall winner
1996 Miata, 1991 BMW E30, 1987 coROLLa (retired), 1984 Citation (retired), 1993 Miata (retired)