Re: Pandering to Judge Phil on this one...

Judge Phil wrote:

At least try to run the flathead once, if possible. The Grumpy Cat '50 Dodge has done OK with a Chrysler flathead six.

WE have every intention of doing so.  The chassis and engine start their assessment process soon.  Unless the 30 year old rebuild was completely botched, we plan to run it with the flathead for 1-2 races minimum before doing anything else.

Re: Pandering to Judge Phil on this one...

cabinboy wrote:
OnkelUdo wrote:
FPRbuzz wrote:

Diamond Star Motors time. 4g63 and fwd would be hilarious.

There is nothing in this world that could make me do this...I can think of little that would be less reliable unless it is a Simca in the hands of Soggy as team captain.

I've got a G63B with a 5 speed from a Mitsu pickup you can have. Comes with a rebuild kit.

I do believe that would make it slower than the flathead...

Re: Pandering to Judge Phil on this one...

How about a ghettocharged Chevy 292 or Ford 300 straight-six, after the flathead blows up? Budget exemption for ghettocharging parts, especially if you use multiple (preferably non-matching) turbos!

Re: Pandering to Judge Phil on this one...

If the flathead survives two races, I say put a blower on it. Just make sure it's one you can easily re-use on your new powerplant after you explodinate the flathead.

Re: Pandering to Judge Phil on this one...

Judge Phil wrote:

How about a ghettocharged Chevy 292 or Ford 300 straight-six, after the flathead blows up? Budget exemption for ghettocharging parts, especially if you use multiple (preferably non-matching) turbos!

I am a fan of the Ford 300 so I am all for this plan...just have to convince the team.  The 292 around here is getting hard to find find for some reason.

Re: Pandering to Judge Phil on this one...

SpaceFrank wrote:

If the flathead survives two races, I say put a blower on it. Just make sure it's one you can easily re-use on your new powerplant after you explodinate the flathead.

I have been researching this...so far with little luck.  Other than the obvious problem of supercharging a carb'ed car, most folks say it can only take about 7 psi even in the shorter stroke 218 that I believe we have.  Does not mean I do not want to try it...

Re: Pandering to Judge Phil on this one...

OnkelUdo wrote:
SpaceFrank wrote:

If the flathead survives two races, I say put a blower on it. Just make sure it's one you can easily re-use on your new powerplant after you explodinate the flathead.

I have been researching this...so far with little luck.  Other than the obvious problem of supercharging a carb'ed car, most folks say it can only take about 7 psi even in the shorter stroke 218 that I believe we have.  Does not mean I do not want to try it...

Just put a bigger PCV valve or ten on it and check the oil often.

Re: Pandering to Judge Phil on this one...

dale.furno wrote:

Just put a bigger PCV valve or ten on it...

A PCwhat valve? Do you mean a road draft tube?

1982 MG Metro 1300: IOE 2015 Pacific Northworst GP, Longest Distance 2010 Cd'L Box Wine Country Classic
1980 KV Mini 1: Worst of Show and Fright Pig Supremo 2009 Concours d'Lemons
1978 H Special: Second-Round Elimination 2010 Lemons Pinewood Derby at Sears Pointless
1967 SAAB 96: IOE 2012 Pacific Northworst GP, Organizer's Choice 2022 Hell on Wheels California Rally

Re: Pandering to Judge Phil on this one...

mharrell wrote:
dale.furno wrote:

Just put a bigger PCV valve or ten on it...

A PCwhat valve? Do you mean a road draft tube?

Yep, vent to atmosphere.  Rope main seal would never survive crankcase vacuum...or probably pressure.

Re: Pandering to Judge Phil on this one...

I was shooting for the innovation aspect: has there been a 1st gen hemi in Lemons yet?  How about a 318 Poly?  International Harvester "Diamond" series inline 6?  Ford MEL?  S/F....Ken M

I think NSF had a 331 in their early 50's Mopar coupe.

Dave

ERM Racing:  NHMS 2016 - Organizer's Choice Award. NHMS 2015 - Judge's Choice Award. NHMS 2014 - "Most work to make an Unrecognizable Movie Car Award" Team Ludicrous Speed:  NHMS Fall 2013 - driver, NHMS Spring 2013 -  support crew, NHMS Fall 2012 - Corner Marshal (How not to Flip Your Car)

Re: Pandering to Judge Phil on this one...

Run the flattie.  You can cool them through a 5 gallon pail and they have a very flat torque curve.  It'll be slow, but very forgiving to drive.  And it'll probably get like 20 mpg while racing. 

If you want a good swap, I'd suggest the "big block" Six from a 5-series BMW.

Tunachuckers: 15 Years of Effluency
'08 - '10: 1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
'10 - '18: 1975 Ford LTD Landau --> 2018 - current: Converted into 1950 "Plymford"
'22 - current: 1967 Volvo 122, "Charlie ]["

Re: Pandering to Judge Phil on this one...

mechimike wrote:

Run the flattie.  You can cool them through a 5 gallon pail and they have a very flat torque curve.  It'll be slow, but very forgiving to drive.  And it'll probably get like 20 mpg while racing. 

If you want a good swap, I'd suggest the "big block" Six from a 5-series BMW.

We have the original radiator that we are pressure testing so if it does not leak we attempt using it. 

I know it will be slow but we are hoping to optimize the torque so that we can actually achieve a top speed that does not involve stopping for coffee by playing with rear gearing.

If you are not joking about the fuel effeciency, that means 142 laps per (usable fuel) tank or almost 6 hour stints!  Wahoo, we must invest in depends and nodoze!

Re: Pandering to Judge Phil on this one...

i think the rear gear on these was something like 3.90.  And they used 16" wheels with big freaking tires.  So if you go to smaller diameter wheels and tires you may need a steeper gear, like a 3.50 or 3.75.  You may think I'm joking but don't even think about revving that engine north of 4000 RPM.

Tunachuckers: 15 Years of Effluency
'08 - '10: 1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
'10 - '18: 1975 Ford LTD Landau --> 2018 - current: Converted into 1950 "Plymford"
'22 - current: 1967 Volvo 122, "Charlie ]["

Re: Pandering to Judge Phil on this one...

mechimike wrote:

i think the rear gear on these was something like 3.90.  And they used 16" wheels with big freaking tires.  So if you go to smaller diameter wheels and tires you may need a steeper gear, like a 3.50 or 3.75.  You may think I'm joking but don't even think about revving that engine north of 4000 RPM.

Plan is end up with a 3.55 final drive and I forget which 16" tire but the end result is that the HP peak on the engine is 3600 rpm's so 70 mph in 3rd = 3650 rpms with this combo.  Unless we do a significant flow improvement, there is no real reason to exceed 3700 rpms as it is just noise.  I serious doubt we would ever be able to exceed 70 mph on either of our home tracks but if we ever get there, the same axle we will be using comes in a 3.27.

FYI, 1948's came with 15" wheels but still stupid tall tires.  We are no doubt going to be having to run spacers and likely massage a fender or two as "race" tires are all about 8" wide and those fenders were never meant for that.

Re: Pandering to Judge Phil on this one...

A BMW Big Six wouldn't be the world's worst idea. Manual transmissions would be easy for that.

Re: Pandering to Judge Phil on this one...

FWIW, the Rambler was severely gear limited with it's original drivetrain and low profile Direzzas.  In AZ, it was redlined about 100 yards into the long straight at 65 or so MPH (lots of needle bounce).  For all the troubles they are having with the conversion, there's no way that engine even rebuilt would have lasted being passed through all the ham-fisted hands this year.  You know somebody would get caught up in the red-mist eventually.  Suspension condition was probably worse.  The short term pain of the modern engine/suspension teething problems will absolutely pay off in the long run.  I suspect that's true to hooning any pre 60 car.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita"  1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless) 2002 Jaguar x-type (Winner C-Class 2021 Sears Pointless)
Gone bye-bye
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)  1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites)

Re: Pandering to Judge Phil on this one...

Judge Phil wrote:

A BMW Big Six wouldn't be the world's worst idea. Manual transmissions would be easy for that.

W'sWI: Jag 4.0l

'18 PNW-Organizer's Choice '17 PNW-IOE '15 PNW-Judge's Choice '14 PNW-Heroic Fix
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Re: Pandering to Judge Phil on this one...

CPT_Trans_Continental wrote:
Judge Phil wrote:

A BMW Big Six wouldn't be the world's worst idea. Manual transmissions would be easy for that.

W'sWI: Jag 4.0l

#r^y>2: Dat 2.8

I can right nonsense as well.

Re: Pandering to Judge Phil on this one...

cheseroo wrote:

FWIW, the Rambler was severely gear limited with it's original drivetrain and low profile Direzzas.  In AZ, it was redlined about 100 yards into the long straight at 65 or so MPH (lots of needle bounce).  For all the troubles they are having with the conversion, there's no way that engine even rebuilt would have lasted being passed through all the ham-fisted hands this year.  You know somebody would get caught up in the red-mist eventually.  Suspension condition was probably worse.  The short term pain of the modern engine/suspension teething problems will absolutely pay off in the long run.  I suspect that's true to hooning any pre 60 car.

Our straights are pretty short for Joliet and Gingerman.  I do see us being gear limited with the plan above for the Gingerman long straight (but not that much) because the sweeper leading in to can be taken quickly, but the short straight I will be happy if we can hit 70 mph.  As this will likely be our core drivers only, or those we trust, we can somewhat control them.

As said from the beginning, the stock, unmodified drive train and engine is for 1-2 races only.  Then we either do stupid things with the original, or we do something stupid with a very different combination.

Mike

Re: Pandering to Judge Phil on this one...

OnkelUdo wrote:
mechimike wrote:

i think the rear gear on these was something like 3.90.  And they used 16" wheels with big freaking tires.  So if you go to smaller diameter wheels and tires you may need a steeper gear, like a 3.50 or 3.75.  You may think I'm joking but don't even think about revving that engine north of 4000 RPM.

Plan is end up with a 3.55 final drive and I forget which 16" tire but the end result is that the HP peak on the engine is 3600 rpm's so 70 mph in 3rd = 3650 rpms with this combo.  Unless we do a significant flow improvement, there is no real reason to exceed 3700 rpms as it is just noise.  I serious doubt we would ever be able to exceed 70 mph on either of our home tracks but if we ever get there, the same axle we will be using comes in a 3.27.

FYI, 1948's came with 15" wheels but still stupid tall tires.  We are no doubt going to be having to run spacers and likely massage a fender or two as "race" tires are all about 8" wide and those fenders were never meant for that.

Interesting...I recall looking up the original tire for my '49 Plymouth and they were 16"

Tunachuckers: 15 Years of Effluency
'08 - '10: 1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
'10 - '18: 1975 Ford LTD Landau --> 2018 - current: Converted into 1950 "Plymford"
'22 - current: 1967 Volvo 122, "Charlie ]["

Re: Pandering to Judge Phil on this one...

mechimike wrote:

Interesting...I recall looking up the original tire for my '49 Plymouth and they were 16"

For once, a large part of the interwebs is wrong.  Found out it was a running change in 1947 once I found a specialty forum for the post-war Mopars.  Even Hemmings has it wrong in their information.

Re: Pandering to Judge Phil on this one...

CPT_Trans_Continental wrote:
Judge Phil wrote:

A BMW Big Six wouldn't be the world's worst idea. Manual transmissions would be easy for that.

W'sWI: Jag 4.0l

World's Worst Inline?

Re: Pandering to Judge Phil on this one...

SpaceFrank wrote:
CPT_Trans_Continental wrote:
Judge Phil wrote:

A BMW Big Six wouldn't be the world's worst idea. Manual transmissions would be easy for that.

W'sWI: Jag 4.0l

World's Worst Inline?

smile

'18 PNW-Organizer's Choice '17 PNW-IOE '15 PNW-Judge's Choice '14 PNW-Heroic Fix
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Re: Pandering to Judge Phil on this one...

One think to remember. If you're pandering to Judge Phil try to make sure he'll be working the race you bring the car to, something we're learning the hard way. I just hope Judge Steve has as fine an appreciation of the Chrysler LH platform vehicles and how terrible they are as Judge Phil does.

Newest member - White Trash Racing
Owner of the Traveling Hat

Re: Pandering to Judge Phil on this one...

cabinboy wrote:

One think to remember. If you're pandering to Judge Phil try to make sure he'll be working the race you bring the car to, something we're learning the hard way. I just hope Judge Steve has as fine an appreciation of the Chrysler LH platform vehicles and how terrible they are as Judge Phil does.

I am pretty sure everyone ever to drive a car is aware of how awful that platform is.

Even if the infamous judge in question is not at the Plymouth's debut, I have a feeling it will make an impression as the flathead farts around the track at a stately pace.