Topic: Keeping a Team Budget is Like Being a Fortune 500 Company Accountant

Just finished up our team's budget/ race expenditures for the Spring CMP race.  Oye...

One guy did not drive, but bought food and safety gear and some car parts.  He will also use some of the safety gear in future races, when he will drive.

One guy drove only Saturday, and left Saturday night so he did not eat Sunday.

One guy bought food only, and did drive.

3 of us bought no food, but did buy various car-related stuff, and drove and ate all weekend.

3 guys needed some new safety gear, which a fourth guy bought (naturally).

Without my engineering degree, and vast Excel experience, I have no idea how I'd figure this all out. 

Oh, and Paypal.  Thank God for Paypal.

Tunachuckers: 15 Years of Effluency
'08 - '10: 1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
'10 - '18: 1975 Ford LTD Landau --> 2018 - current: Converted into 1950 "Plymford"
'22 - current: 1967 Volvo 122, "Charlie ]["

Re: Keeping a Team Budget is Like Being a Fortune 500 Company Accountant

As an actual CPA - let me suggest a good spreadsheet or I actually use QuickBooks.  Also I suggest only one person do any buying as that is what causes all the issues and I have gone through that already with giant spreadsheets and formulas to make it all work.

What I do is set a budget - everyone puts in their share and if someone has to leave early or we don't do an equal event those event costs get shared differently - takes the hard part of first getting all the information and then trueing it up. As what happens is me (the bank) get left paying out more than a I should and then have to try and collect.  If we have extra great as honestly something always breaks or we need more tires, oil and small parts anyway that can easily eat up any excess.  Also makes it easier on the guys to know or choose how much they want to spent each year. We shoot for 2-4 races per year as we are down in TX and don't have as many races going on near us as many other places in the country.

Before each race (months before) - I will set a budget once we know who is going and what cars we are bringing as we have basically 4 cars and 6 drivers - so depending on the series we bring 2-3 cars per race and split up all fees, food and fuel among those who are signing up to participate - then I set the driving schedule based on that. So if someone only wants partial that is fine as the rest of us are generally happy for more track time or we can sell a seat or partial seat as we happen to have at least a few guys just itching to come play!

Re: Keeping a Team Budget is Like Being a Fortune 500 Company Accountant

Yeah, the accounting part of this adventure is always the fun part.  If you google "Shared Expenses Calculator", you'll find scads of the things.  I found this out after I wrote my own excel formulas to do it.  FWIW, I'm a slumlord and my tenant has been paying me via Venmo.  It's like Paypal but there are no fees.  You have to manually transfer the incoming money from Venmo to your bank (click a button) and the money transfers the next day.  That's the big difference between Paypal and Venmo.  As it is, as the den mother it seems like I'm the one who absorbs any money descrepancies and sucking it on the paypal fees kinda blows.  We see each other enough that we just pay each other by check.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita"  1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless) 2002 Jaguar x-type (Winner C-Class 2021 Sears Pointless)
Gone bye-bye
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)  1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites)

Re: Keeping a Team Budget is Like Being a Fortune 500 Company Accountant

cheseroo wrote:

As it is, as the den mother it seems like I'm the one who absorbs any money descrepancies and sucking it on the paypal fees kinda blows.

We don't pay fees.  It is "send money to family and friends" but used to be called "gift".

Re: Keeping a Team Budget is Like Being a Fortune 500 Company Accountant

I'm not that smart so accounting is kept simple.  At least 6 months before the race I estimate the total cost of running in the race.  I round all estimates up and add the would love to have things too, like 17" rims.  We run 2 cars and 10 drivers, so I divide my estimated cost by 10 and then again round up a bit.  Everyone is expected to pay by the time our app is due.  If not I start searching for a replacement driver.  If someone buys a part for the car, I will reimburse them.  There is no partial drive time or anything else, its 100% pay or nothing.  If the car blows up or gets smashed 10 laps in, well that's part of Lemons.  That being said I typically put myself last in the driving order so if someone gets screwed I'm included too.  Accounting is typically very simple this way. 

I also have everyone complete a disclaimer that explains the financial risk as well as risk of injury.

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Re: Keeping a Team Budget is Like Being a Fortune 500 Company Accountant

We have always split costs, so no one person is stuck paying $$$$ and then waiting for reimbursement.  Getting a pre-payment would be fine, but then there'd still be adjustments after the race for the inevitable random expenditures.  we don't do A&Ds, everyone splits all costs equally, unless there's some extenuating circumstance. 

Selling partial seats is an intriguing idea, though each driver would still have to buy a wristband.  Might look into that for the next race. 

Venmo sounds neat, too, though we always use the "send $$ to friends" Paypal thing so there's no fees.

Tunachuckers: 15 Years of Effluency
'08 - '10: 1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
'10 - '18: 1975 Ford LTD Landau --> 2018 - current: Converted into 1950 "Plymford"
'22 - current: 1967 Volvo 122, "Charlie ]["

7 (edited by RobL 2016-05-20 09:44 AM)

Re: Keeping a Team Budget is Like Being a Fortune 500 Company Accountant

meyers0150 wrote:

I'm not that smart so accounting is kept simple.  At least 6 months before the race I estimate the total cost of running in the race.  I round all estimates up and add the would love to have things too, like 17" rims.  We run 2 cars and 10 drivers, so I divide my estimated cost by 10 and then again round up a bit.  Everyone is expected to pay by the time our app is due.  If not I start searching for a replacement driver.  If someone buys a part for the car, I will reimburse them.  There is no partial drive time or anything else, its 100% pay or nothing.  If the car blows up or gets smashed 10 laps in, well that's part of Lemons.  That being said I typically put myself last in the driving order so if someone gets screwed I'm included too.  Accounting is typically very simple this way.


This.  All the expenses that I have ever had for any car is kept in the spreadsheet.  So if I know that we are going to need rotors, I know how much I am going to estimate they are.  I have race length, average gallons of gas per hour, gas cost, towing distance, etc.   My prices are, on the outset, more expensive, but then I, personally, am not getting screwed because something needed to be paid for.  My fee is every expected cost to get the car and drivers through the whole weekend.  Fees, once paid, are non-refundable as I usually start paying the entry and buying the consumables as soon as we are accepted to the race. 

I had one team that offered a cheap seat.  Well, it was cheap because it didn't include your driver fee or your gas for your stint.  Things that were not mentioned when I agreed.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: Keeping a Team Budget is Like Being a Fortune 500 Company Accountant

I just figure what seems like a fair price for whatever I'm bringing to the race (Pinto$ <Mustang$<Galaxie$).  I then spend way more than my share and wonder where all the money goes.

I find this to be much simpler than spreadsheets and accounting BS.

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Re: Keeping a Team Budget is Like Being a Fortune 500 Company Accountant

Sir Thomas Crapper wrote:

I just figure what seems like a fair price for whatever I'm bringing to the race (Pinto$ <Mustang$<Galaxie$).  I then spend way more than my share and wonder where all the money goes.

I find this to be much simpler than spreadsheets and accounting BS.

^ this.

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Re: Keeping a Team Budget is Like Being a Fortune 500 Company Accountant

I think it would depend on the make-up of your team, a single owner vs. team ownership.

I am somewhere between RobL and Mr. Crapper.  I try to figure all the expenses, including adding some for items that are only replaced every few races, or years.  I usually end up paying slightly more than my A&D's. 

Any improvements I make to the car I pay for myself, since I am the sole owner.

"She's a brick house" 57th out of 121 and 5th in Class C, There Goes the Neighborhood 2013
"PA Posse" 21st out of 96 and 2nd in Class C, Capitol Offense 2013.
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"PA Posse" 33rd out of 151 and 2nd in Class C, The Real Hoopties 2013

Re: Keeping a Team Budget is Like Being a Fortune 500 Company Accountant

racinrob wrote:

I think it would depend on the make-up of your team, a single owner vs. team ownership.

I am somewhere between RobL and Mr. Crapper.  I try to figure all the expenses, including adding some for items that are only replaced every few races, or years.  I usually end up paying slightly more than my A&D's. 

Any improvements I make to the car I pay for myself, since I am the sole owner.

We are similar...we break it down into hard parts and consumable.

Consumables are a variable.  On the Saturn we kind of recaptured the cost of various engine parts over three race because we would go through timing set, bearinge or head gasket in that time.  the Van eats a front bearing about every race and with the automatic a driver axle on average every race.  the rest are obvious with tires, fluids, pads, rotors, etc.

Hard parts are car and improvements like the manual tranny swap on the van or the quick disconnect wiring on the Saturn.

I aslo charge a stipend for re-theme, food and an estimate for tow fuel.

Re: Keeping a Team Budget is Like Being a Fortune 500 Company Accountant

Every year, we review the actual expenses that were incurred and come up with a spreadsheet that estimates consumables for the car and fees for the next year. Then I pad it a little and use whatever extra there is to make material improvements to the car. We set numbers for a race and for an HPDE (HPDE's are cheaper because we can use crappy used brakes and tires) and divide the total by the number of drivers at the event. My brother collects the money and disburses it because he's good at that stuff (I am horrible with money) and I own/maintain the car because that's what I'm OCD about. Price-wise, we are not very cheap, but we are generally well prepared to run properly all weekend, and that costs more.

Drivers buy their own gas. Each driver is issued two fuel jugs on Friday, and all jugs need to be full before the race starts on Saturday. We generally have a little fuel left over, which goes in our POV's or the RV tank on Sunday afternoon.

Food is up to the drivers. I'm fine with a can of collard greens, a can of baked beans, and a pack of hot dogs, and I generally keep enough canned goods in the RV to feed the team all weekend, but Robert and Charles will bring fresh food and prepare it, while Robert and I each make ten gallons of beer that we can trade for food.

There are only 4 of us and one car, and three of us have known each other for well over ten years, while the 4th is someone that we'll probably still be racing with ten years from now if he can put up with us for that long. Sometimes we'll invite someone that we like to drive the car if we need an extra driver, but not often.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: Keeping a Team Budget is Like Being a Fortune 500 Company Accountant

I pull a price out of my arse and hope I don't get burned too bad on the difference. The more reliable cars usually ended up being close to zero mark, or even paying a little bit of my share, but I've had some disasters where I ended up over a grand in the hole per race.

That's only entry fees, consumables, and food - Sputnik events are BYOB and I consider car builds to be something I do for my own pleasure, so I cover major hardware and safety equipment on my own. It's an expensive hobby.

...Surprisingly bad were minivan crashes, as those would happen every friggin race and would take out $350 worth of wheel and tire every time. Yet another good reason not to get greedy with wheel size and offset.

K Car Stalker

Re: Keeping a Team Budget is Like Being a Fortune 500 Company Accountant

I'm done trying to make it fair and splitting things up. We used to try to total the car expenses, and then divide entry fees and make everyone pay that. No more, I'm done.

For the new car I'm building it. I'll pay every last dime. Then come next spring it's flat fee. Want to race? It's (I'm making up a number) $600 each. That pays for entrance, cost to build the car back to me, cost to maintain, spares, etc. Paypal me the money before the entrance deadline or you don't race.

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Re: Keeping a Team Budget is Like Being a Fortune 500 Company Accountant

Our system is fairly simple, we have a shared spreadsheet on Google Drive that we all enter our expenses into. That gets split evenly among the team (unless someone misses a race, in which case they don't pay). Everything goes in there, entry fees, parts, hotels, booze, gas, food, etc.

After 21 races the sum total of what we've spent on Lemons is alarming.

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Re: Keeping a Team Budget is Like Being a Fortune 500 Company Accountant

Wow, I never thought it was that complicated. 

We use a simple Google spreadsheet to keep track.  The cost for items used in each race are split equally among four drivers.  Since everyone sends Jay their own drivers entry fee plus 1/4 of the car entry fee, we don't include that on the spreadsheet.  We split hotel costs, towing fuel, race fuel, tires, brakes, any other consumables by four.   After the race is over, we 'settle' up via PayPal so within a week we are all even again.

Costs for anything not related to the actual event (fire suppression system, clutch, bearings, shocks, fuel jugs, radios, etc) are kept on a separate spreadsheet and all costs are split equally among our 5 owners.

We have done it this way for 8 years now and have never had one arguement or anything over the financials.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Keeping a Team Budget is Like Being a Fortune 500 Company Accountant

piper.gras wrote:

After 21 races the sum total of what we've spent on Lemons is alarming.

They say you should never add it up, but like you I do, and it's a LOT for sure.  However I don't regret much if anything of what I have spent.  I enjoy the hell out of Lemons racing and since we can only live once, I'm going to continue as long as I can!

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Keeping a Team Budget is Like Being a Fortune 500 Company Accountant

TheEngineer wrote:

I'm done trying to make it fair and splitting things up. We used to try to total the car expenses, and then divide entry fees and make everyone pay that. No more, I'm done.

I pay for everything and then hopefully get the guys to buy a tire or brake pads or fluids. Something that has to be purchased or the car does not run. "We can't race on THREE tires, come on, sell some plasma."

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Re: Keeping a Team Budget is Like Being a Fortune 500 Company Accountant

I love having a team debit card. Ted and I draw up a theoretical max price, add 50-100 to it and pray that it's enough. We get all the money well before the race to pay fees and for tires. If there is extra money in the account after the race it goes to maintenance, if not... somebody might be pulling out their own wallet to buy fuel over the weekend.

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Re: Keeping a Team Budget is Like Being a Fortune 500 Company Accountant

We all true up on the prep expenses before a race. Then have everybody put cash in an envelope on Friday night. If you go to the store you take the cash and replace spent funds with receipts. If there is leftover money (which there normally is not) then the decision is made before leaving the track to split it amongst the car owners or leave it in the envelope for repairs and race prep for the next race.

I would think the meals is where it would make it harder to account for the money so we don't really plan for them. Even if you are racing the car one stint for the weekend the car expenses are split between the owners evenly.

Our meals usually consist of pizza delivered to the track Saturday night and a pre-planned dinner on Friday which everyone pitches into out of their pocket. Munchies and such at the track are the individuals responsibility so lunch for most of the team is a burger and fries from the snack shack.

It tends to work pretty well for us. I have seen the team debit card and love the idea. Just too lazy to go open another bank account.

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Re: Keeping a Team Budget is Like Being a Fortune 500 Company Accountant

Ho boy, yeah. I'm a flat fee person. Pay me up front. If I go overbudget, that's my problem and it's on my butt. I'm not going to hound people later for overages because I know I'll get wrapped up in other work or the car's next outing. I hope to cover it all in the up-front fee, but eh. I know I'm probably going to spend more than I expect.

If I was running the car more as a business of Rent This Stupid 944, sure, but given that it doesn't race unless I'm in it, it's definitely more in the labor of love category.

Re: Keeping a Team Budget is Like Being a Fortune 500 Company Accountant

Same here. Flat fee. The deal is I bring a healthy car. Once the green flag drops...

At the beginning of the year I show the team what the expected race costs (tires, food, fuel, transport, etc) for the year will be, in part so they can see what their money will go to, and in part to justify higher fees for far away races, should we actually attend them.

I pay for everything else, all repairs, swag, all. Fortunately Opel parts are not expensive. Unfortunately they are not cheap.

Mike