Re: What can be done to make Lemons more attractive to spectators?

Strippers... if we added strippers that would definitely add fans.

Tom Lomino - Proud to be a 18x Lemons Loser, 2x Class B, and 1x IOE Winner!
Craptain, Team Farfrumwinnin - 1993 Volkswagen Fox #14 (painted like a Ur Quattro)
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Re: What can be done to make Lemons more attractive to spectators?

Having Raced all three classes and built each one. They all have their place.
The fun suck comes full circle when you are trying to win. The stress level goes up exponentially.
But I still leave with a smile on my face if I kept it on track for a win or wrenched all weekend. I have done Both.
There are races within the race. There is so many layers, be it a class win, An Index, just for fun or to brag to your teammates that you had the fastest lap time.
Really what I'm saying is, whatever race you want, lemons is It.

Re: What can be done to make Lemons more attractive to spectators?

Right you are, Manny!

Captain: Speedycop & The Gang Of Outlaws -'94 Mark VIII (Least Horrible Yank Tank Stafford '09, NOLA '10) '61 Caddy (Org Choice-NL '09) '63 Tbird (EPIC Repair Failure-Gingerman '10, I Got Screwed-Summit Pt '10, I.O.E. WINNER Stafford '10!) '77 Lancia Scorpion (I.O.E. WINNER Joliet 2010!) '67 Galaxie 500 (Judges Choice-CMP '11)
Future Fleet: 1957 Ford Prefect 1942 Buick 1959 Bugeye Project GLCOAT

Re: What can be done to make Lemons more attractive to spectators?

RogueLeader wrote:

Strippers... if we added strippers that would definitely add fans.

NSF tried that.  They came up a little...short.

-jt
Unionized Physicist
Tetanus Racing
1986 Porsche 944, #986

Re: What can be done to make Lemons more attractive to spectators?

Strippers is never not a good idea.

RetroRacing-1973 Super! Beetle: 2010 CMP Fall-Judges' Choice, 2014 Barber-DFL and I Got Screwed!, 2-time winner: You Talk Shit Better Than You Race (YTSBTYR) Award
Now available west of the Rockies as... Nine Finger Drifters- 1982 te72 Toyota Corolla Wagon (it's got a HEMI!)
Also, fall in love with my one man show: G. D. Yo-Man: No! YOU Ams Da A&&hole! (coming soon to a racing venue near you)

Re: What can be done to make Lemons more attractive to spectators?

yodogg wrote:

Strippers is never not a good idea.

The last Reno race might have had some performers from the local cultural events center in a few of the corner stations for a while.  A group discussion of the dichotomy between the information one expects to be presented from those locations vs the information actually received never took place for some reason.  In any case, it was very bad/good.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita" 
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)
1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless)
1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites) (Sold -> Houston.  Gone and forgotten)

Re: What can be done to make Lemons more attractive to spectators?

jimthefirst wrote:
RogueLeader wrote:

Strippers... if we added strippers that would definitely add fans.

NSF tried that.  They came up a little...short.

Someone with an MG Midget so, so desperately needs to do a Bridget theme!

Re: What can be done to make Lemons more attractive to spectators?

ninjacoco wrote:
jimthefirst wrote:
RogueLeader wrote:

Strippers... if we added strippers that would definitely add fans.

NSF tried that.  They came up a little...short.

Someone with an MG Midget so, so desperately needs to do a Bridget theme!

Methinks this runs afoul of the wheelbase rule smile

OMG Racing '94 Benz S500 #140: https://www.facebook.com/pages/OMG-Raci … 2774944199
Judges Choice and Regional Award winner! Chuckwalla '12, Buttonwillow '13, BFE GP '15, Miller '14 & '15, Sonoma '13,'14,'15. Inde '16,17.Finisher of the inaugural LeMons Rally, in the black Jag.... and IOE in the Super Snipe back in '12...look for the #820 Audi back on a track near you in 2017!!

Re: What can be done to make Lemons more attractive to spectators?

MZAVARIN wrote:
rodknox2 wrote:

.....


Good points....but
For me (and some other teams) that bring class A and B cars, that are fairly fast and reliable (boring)....and make up 90% of the financial support of the race....I come to race in LeMons because of the Spankys, Speedys, Sputnikys, NSFers, etc. that make up the 10% Class C cars.  If it wasn't for those nuts that bring ridiculous cars, are amazing fabricators and creative mechanics, that truly represent the spirit of LeMons, and are a dying breed to behold, who are truly the ones keeping to the spirit of $500 crapcan racing alive....well....Lemons would be just like any other series....and would not be my first choice of budget racing league....and might be the end of LeMons.  For some like me, Class C is the reason the Class A and B teams come to race in LeMons as opposed to other series.
Cheers!  Here's to Class C!

Otherwise, is LeMons a spectator (?sport)?  Was Woodstock a concert? Is Burning Man an art exhibit?

I think that charging $30 to check out what the race is about and drop in, is too expensive and turns people away that might otherwise check it out and might end up being interested....how about $10? or $15 per day?

We don't need more spectators, we need more racing teams....especially Class C

Just my opinion....

Z

Agreed.



From the first LeMons race I stumbled upon, I 'got it'. 

If I wanted to see race prepped newer sports cars run I could go almost anywhere else.   

IMHO: A way to have less 'A' and 'B' cars would be a good start. Maybe more penalties for even bringing a 'A' or 'B'?  Not just laps and beer, I'm talking major tire restrictions (doughnut spares only?), mandatory scheduled black flags, mandatory driver changes, severe weight penalties,.........   

(If I ran NASCAR: No pitting under yellow....)


Back on topic:

I don't think spectator access to the pits is a good idea on many levels, but maybe a way for kids to be able to 'check-out' and sit in the cars before the racing starts? (special area, batteries removed, wheels chocked, cars inspected,...)

Maybe a way for a small group (family) can buy a few tickets with a slightly reduced price?  As mentioned, maybe a 'day ticket' is a good idea too.



Bill

2017 NJMP #24 Team Super Grover, DNF, MF, WTF.........
2016 Thompson Motor Speedway #36 Sabrina Duncan's Revenge, IOE Trophy, 5th Place 'C' Class 1977 Ford Pinto
2009 Stafford Motor Speedway #16 Team Teflon, 11th Place (overall) 1997 Saturn SL2

Re: What can be done to make Lemons more attractive to spectators?

-SDR- wrote:

From the first LeMons race I stumbled upon, I 'got it'. 

If I wanted to see race prepped newer sports cars run I could go almost anywhere else.   

IMHO: A way to have less 'A' and 'B' cars would be a good start. Maybe more penalties for even bringing a 'A' or 'B'?  Not just laps and beer, I'm talking major tire restrictions (doughnut spares only?), mandatory scheduled black flags, mandatory driver changes, severe weight penalties,.........   

<snip>

I always enjoy reading posts from self-proclaimed "get it" people that express the opinion that their LeMons is the only true LeMons.  Fact is, the classes all need each other, both to fill the field and to provide the on-track and in-paddock (and in-forum) contrast that keeps this whole deal interesting.

A particular irony here is that you are making suggestions that might help increase spectator attendance, a change that would provide questionable-at-best benefit to the LeMons community and none at all to the LeMons bottom line, while also espousing rules changes intended to chase away the meat of the field that the organization relies upon for financial stability.  Well-played, sir.

Scott

Re: What can be done to make Lemons more attractive to spectators?

Obviously, I'm with you Mr. Ducky.  The C class 'get its' don't appreciate the sheer fun of flirting with danger and disaster that comes with speed and cornering at tire adhesion limits.  But 9 out of 10 Lemoneers do and so doe$ Jay.

62 (edited by TeamLemon-aid 2016-07-11 10:56 AM)

Re: What can be done to make Lemons more attractive to spectators?

Driving a Geo Metro with 200HP and rear wheel drive at the limit to win a Lemons race was WAAAAAAY more fun than driving a Geo Metro with 55HP and front wheel drive to get 15th and win an IOE.

Just sayin'....

Edit: Also, IMO, despite what the class C guys would like to believe, driving a fast car fast is harder than driving a slow car fast..

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.

63 (edited by -SDR- 2016-07-11 07:48 PM)

Re: What can be done to make Lemons more attractive to spectators?

hoverducky wrote:
-SDR- wrote:

From the first LeMons race I stumbled upon, I 'got it'. 

If I wanted to see race prepped newer sports cars run I could go almost anywhere else.   

IMHO: A way to have less 'A' and 'B' cars would be a good start. Maybe more penalties for even bringing a 'A' or 'B'?  Not just laps and beer, I'm talking major tire restrictions (doughnut spares only?), mandatory scheduled black flags, mandatory driver changes, severe weight penalties,.........   

<snip>

I always enjoy reading posts from self-proclaimed "get it" people that express the opinion that their LeMons is the only true LeMons.  Fact is, the classes all need each other, both to fill the field and to provide the on-track and in-paddock (and in-forum) contrast that keeps this whole deal interesting.

A particular irony here is that you are making suggestions that might help increase spectator attendance, a change that would provide questionable-at-best benefit to the LeMons community and none at all to the LeMons bottom line, while also espousing rules changes intended to chase away the meat of the field that the organization relies upon for financial stability.  Well-played, sir.

Scott

I always enjoy reading replies to my posts where the person does not read what I wrote, just what they think I wrote, and then tosses in an insult or two.

Also, thank you for posting your own ideas on how to increase spectators and not just criticizing comments made by others.


IMHO: A race for $500. cars should be a race where MOST cars meet that rule, not the other way around, but that's just me...




Bill

2017 NJMP #24 Team Super Grover, DNF, MF, WTF.........
2016 Thompson Motor Speedway #36 Sabrina Duncan's Revenge, IOE Trophy, 5th Place 'C' Class 1977 Ford Pinto
2009 Stafford Motor Speedway #16 Team Teflon, 11th Place (overall) 1997 Saturn SL2

Re: What can be done to make Lemons more attractive to spectators?

I wouldn't mind seeing a retirement clause for Overall winner cars. Once you have a car sorted enough to win overall, you've gone about as far as you can with it.

Either retire it, or perform some inadvisable engineering to bring it down a class or two. No need to chuck a perfectly good Chassis and Cage, but perhaps engine downgrades?

V8's have to swap in slant 6 or pinto 4's

DOHC I-4's have to put in the crappy poorly breathing SOHC version of the engine.

Or just put them in D class! Douglas 400 TW valhalla!

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL) https://www.facebook.com/groups/MBTLracing/
88 Thunderbird "What's the word? Thunderbird!", "What's the Price? Thirty Twice!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)

Re: What can be done to make Lemons more attractive to spectators?

Guildenstern wrote:

I wouldn't mind seeing a retirement clause for Overall winner cars. Once you have a car sorted enough to win overall, you've gone about as far as you can with it.

Either retire it, or perform some inadvisable engineering to bring it down a class or two. No need to chuck a perfectly good Chassis and Cage, but perhaps engine downgrades?

V8's have to swap in slant 6 or pinto 4's

DOHC I-4's have to put in the crappy poorly breathing SOHC version of the engine.

Or just put them in D class! Douglas 400 TW valhalla!

+1

To me, It would be fun or more interesting to see a car only winning Class A more than twice (once could be a fluke, twice makes it proven)  about as often or as commonly as it is for an IOE car to win IOE more than once.

Re: What can be done to make Lemons more attractive to spectators?

Guildenstern wrote:

I wouldn't mind seeing a retirement clause for Overall winner cars. Once you have a car sorted enough to win overall, you've gone about as far as you can with it.

Another idea would be to have the winner start the next race with at least 25 penalty laps.  If they manage overcome that obstacle, make it 50 for the next race.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
#411
'93 Acura Integra

Re: What can be done to make Lemons more attractive to spectators?

I was making this an "edit" or a post script to my immediately above post, but I think it deserves it's own.



FWIW, Jay said in a recent podcast interview said the challenge of 24 Hours of LeMons going forward "that occupies me the most" is the evolution of safety and continually making the series more safe.

He then brings up the perennial problem that is/are the inherent characteristics of Competition, and how "we're really loud about 'We dont' give a shit about who wins. We don't care how fast your lap time is.' That kind of attitude keeps that at bay to some degree".

Jay then goes on to say that the top 10% of the cars at any of these races that could win "They're running competitive NASA times, I mean-- they're serious cars; that's not really what this is supposed to be about but at the same time you don't want to penalize these guys for figuring out the problem and solving it. So that's just the ongoing challenge. You're always trying to figure out, 'How do you keep it fun? How do you keep it interesting? How do you keep it mellow and low-key so that the kinds of guys who aren't finding what they need in established racing series find something here?' Aaannnd there's no answer; you just make the crap up as you go."

Re: What can be done to make Lemons more attractive to spectators?

Thanks for sharing that.

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.

Re: What can be done to make Lemons more attractive to spectators?

TeamLemon-aid wrote:

...WAAAAAAY more fun than driving a Geo Metro with 55HP and front wheel drive to get 15th and win an IOE.

Well, yeah. I thought everyone knew that the key to true success is an MG Metro, not a Geo Metro.

1982 MG Metro 1300: IOE 2015 Pacific Northworst GP, Longest Distance 2010 Cd'L Box Wine Country Classic
1980 KV Mini 1: Worst of Show and Fright Pig Supremo 2009 Concours d'LeMons
1978 H Special: Second-Round Elimination 2010 LeMons Pinewood Derby at Sears Pointless
1967 SAAB 96: IOE 2012 Pacific Northworst GP

Re: What can be done to make Lemons more attractive to spectators?

I know this can't happen, selling ride along seat for any idiot willing to get in car, or races in the race, that spectator that picks the winner get to ride in that car. How about all teams that pay into a pool win that money.

Re: What can be done to make Lemons more attractive to spectators?

VKZ24 wrote:
Guildenstern wrote:

I wouldn't mind seeing a retirement clause for Overall winner cars. Once you have a car sorted enough to win overall, you've gone about as far as you can with it.

Another idea would be to have the winner start the next race with at least 25 penalty laps.  If they manage overcome that obstacle, make it 50 for the next race.

Penalty laps don't do anything to combat the increasing Speed Delta out on the track. Unlike NASA or SCCA the whole field isn't raised as competitive times get faster. And also Unlike NASA and SCCA there's over a hundred cars out on the track with easily a 35 mph delta or more.

Now I know the true way to win is to just stay on the track and turn laps. But, in practice it's seeming like the easy way to pull more laps in is becoming go faster and in a weekend you can be up 3-5 laps at the Checker.

If I had all of Eric Rood's magical data I would love to know what the A class winners were doing in relation to the average lap times and the lower 1/3's lap times.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL) https://www.facebook.com/groups/MBTLracing/
88 Thunderbird "What's the word? Thunderbird!", "What's the Price? Thirty Twice!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)

Re: What can be done to make Lemons more attractive to spectators?

Another thing more on topic would be some kind of fun shame based "reward" for Fastest Lap of the day.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL) https://www.facebook.com/groups/MBTLracing/
88 Thunderbird "What's the word? Thunderbird!", "What's the Price? Thirty Twice!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)

Re: What can be done to make Lemons more attractive to spectators?

Guildenstern wrote:

Another thing more on topic would be some kind of fun shame based "reward" for Fastest Lap of the day.

To be fair, the cars that tend to turn the fastest lap of the day also tend to hella blow up early. The leaders tend to turn slower (though still fairly quick), consistent laps.

Terribly Awesome Racing
Dozen time loser. You'd think I'd know better by now.

Re: What can be done to make Lemons more attractive to spectators?

Fastest laps of the cars still running?

There needs to be more entertaining shame!

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL) https://www.facebook.com/groups/MBTLracing/
88 Thunderbird "What's the word? Thunderbird!", "What's the Price? Thirty Twice!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)

Re: What can be done to make Lemons more attractive to spectators?

I guess it all defaults back to this is not my circus and these are not my monkeys. Jay and the guys that run Lemons make the rules and so if you want to play in their sandbox then you need to abide by them. I think penalizing the "A" class would be detrimental to the sport since then people would start to look elsewhere to run their crap can. That being said I did like the rule that another series had that you would be penalized my however far you won by at the next race. Not laps but in actual mileage. But again this is just my $.02 worth and that won't even get you a cup of coffee these days.

On a different note I think anybody that runs a Miata should get a 50 lap head start wink

I'm Nikolas Van Helsing, professor of proctology and other related tendencies. A graduate of the University of Rangoon. And assorted night classes at the Knoxville Tennessee school of faith healing.
Team Cheese Consortium, now Boondoggle Racing!!
2010, 26th @ CMP, 2011, 10th & 5th at CMP, 2012? (MIA) 2013 CMP, 53rd sad