• From: Antioch, IL
  • Registered: 2016-06-08
  • Posts: 101

Topic: Rust, How does Lemons feel about it?

Another Noob question.

Rust?

I imagine pretty much every Lemons car has rust on it. To what extent does the judges look at this topic? I am already preparing so chunks of car don't fall off our heap just as I hope the car in front of me did big_smile but I really don't want to be scrambling on track/tech day to fix. I'm patching rust holes in the floor. Hammering and poking out loose crap and going over the top with 20 gauge good enough? How about rocker panels on a unibody? Mine are pretty much gone. Again, loose crap was trimmed away but ??

Is there any rule of thumb for this?

Thanks,
Mark

  • From: Menomonee Falls, WI
  • Registered: 2013-02-12
  • Posts: 300

Re: Rust, How does Lemons feel about it?

Not that I know of.   Unless the car is structurally unsound I imagine you'll be fine.  Sounds like you're doing great.

-Nathan - Team Captain, Priority Fail Racing
1997 Golf GTI VR6 Mid Engine

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  • bshorey
  • bshorey
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  • Registered: 2009-10-06
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Re: Rust, How does Lemons feel about it?

I'm amazed at the lack of rust on most of the left coast cars.  Ours started life back east, we had to weld floors in to have something to attach a cage to.

As long as the car is structurally sound, you'll be fine.  Don't skimp on areas where the cage will be attached.  Welding base plates to rusty floors won't fly, so make sure to reinforce those areas in particular.

Nobody cares about the cosmetic stuff.  Our fenders are composed mostly of Super Expanding Foam.

bs

  • From: Antioch, IL
  • Registered: 2016-06-08
  • Posts: 101

Re: Rust, How does Lemons feel about it?

bshorey wrote:

Nobody cares about the cosmetic stuff.  Our fenders are composed mostly of Super Expanding Foam.

bs

My confidence level just went up lol. I guess I'm heading I n the right direction then. Thanks. I already did passenger side and my cage spreader solid as a rock.

Mark

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  • From: Elmhurst, IL
  • Registered: 2009-05-01
  • Posts: 4,206

Re: Rust, How does Lemons feel about it?

You need to be sure the floor has no holes in it along with the firewalls.  This all falls under safety so you can spend as much as you want to achieve this outside of budget.  You will also want to make sure the structural parts are sound.  Chances are you are going to be stressing the car on the track more than most of these have been stressed their entire lifetime so you don't want it cracking in half (again safety). All the non structural stuff doesn't matter too much.

Racing 4 Nickels - 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
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  • From: NH
  • Registered: 2010-01-20
  • Posts: 3,299

Re: Rust, How does Lemons feel about it?

Ultimately you are responsible for ensuring the car is safe. No inspector is going to climb in and study every inch of  your car, so you need to make sure the firewall is sound, the floor is one piece, the seams aren't coming apart, etc. Some rust is fine, compromised unibody isn't. You will likely be lifting this car a lot, so are you comfortable with the condition of jack points? Are all the major seams solid? If a fire breaks out in the engine bay are there places it can move quickly into the cabin?

We retired our Daytona because it was too rusty. Seams were coming apart, the floor was gone, repaired, and then rusting out again. I couldn't patch some of the holes because the metal was compromised for a large span around the holes. The pinch seams were gone and putting the car on a lift was terrifying.

It's going to be a judgement call. Cosmetic stuff can be rusted through, but the car needs to be safe.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
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  • From: Hanover, MA
  • Registered: 2014-06-05
  • Posts: 53

Re: Rust, How does Lemons feel about it?

Our Datsun 280z is pretty rusty. Last race one of our fenders that was rotted broke loose at the bottom. It was never going to leave the car but it was moving around some. We were black flagged and had to fix it. Duct taping it to the door didn't work so had to make a new mount from some scrap metal and rivets.  With the fender reattached we were good to go. No one cared about the other 11 rot holes in the body.  Our floors, firewall, and frame rails have all been patched which is the important part.

Nuthin' but a Z Thang -  1976 Datsun 280Z
  • From: Villa Park, IL
  • Registered: 2010-12-12
  • Posts: 1,338

Re: Rust, How does Lemons feel about it?

This is for the Jetta? I raced a 98 Jetta and had to put patch panels in some places in the rear foot areas. No problems passing tech.

Can't wait to see your car. I still miss mine.

Newest member - White Trash Racing
Owner of the Traveling Hat
  • From: Antioch, IL
  • Registered: 2016-06-08
  • Posts: 101

Re: Rust, How does Lemons feel about it?

cabinboy wrote:

This is for the Jetta? I raced a 98 Jetta and had to put patch panels in some places in the rear foot areas. No problems passing tech.

Can't wait to see your car. I still miss mine.

Yep 98 Jetta GLX.
Here's a sneak peek from when it was undetermined whether it was going to be our Lemons car or not. Thankfully VW made it easy to understand their wiring big_smile  We are FEUER FREI!!
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f35/meistro57/IMG_20160402_175121544%201_zps9cptr5mq.jpg

Yep 98 Jetta GLX. Lot's of rust patching going on. I am happy however that the rust hasn't made it's way to any structural areas.

How did your Jetta hold up?

  • From: Villa Park, IL
  • Registered: 2010-12-12
  • Posts: 1,338

Re: Rust, How does Lemons feel about it?

meistro wrote:

How did your Jetta hold up?

It was great until turn 8 at Road America
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EckRTnj_18Q
Never had a problem with it but it lasted less than two races. Bought it for $200 with no reverse gear.

Newest member - White Trash Racing
Owner of the Traveling Hat
  • From: Antioch, IL
  • Registered: 2016-06-08
  • Posts: 101

Re: Rust, How does Lemons feel about it?

Yikes!. Do you have any more pics or videos? Anything you would have done differently? Well, um, besides turn 8. smile

12 Reply by cabinboy (edited by cabinboy 2016-07-08 03:39 PM)

  • From: Villa Park, IL
  • Registered: 2010-12-12
  • Posts: 1,338

Re: Rust, How does Lemons feel about it?

meistro wrote:

Yikes!. Do you have any more pics or videos? Anything you would have done differently? Well, um, besides turn 8. smile

Yeah. Put a different driver in the car. He was our last driver of day one and that was his first lap.

As far as pictures do you mean of the crash, the car, or the build? I have lots of all of the above.

Newest member - White Trash Racing
Owner of the Traveling Hat
  • From: Antioch, IL
  • Registered: 2016-06-08
  • Posts: 101

Re: Rust, How does Lemons feel about it?

cabinboy wrote:
meistro wrote:

Yikes!. Do you have any more pics or videos? Anything you would have done differently? Well, um, besides turn 8. smile

Yeah. Put a different driver in the car. He was our last driver of day one and that was his first lap.

As far as pictures do you mean of the crash, the car, or the build? I have lots of all of the above.

Build pics would be cool to see. Especially since yours was same as mine.

He must have been cruising a long pretty good to slide that far and hit hard like that. I'm curious what did he say about that? With the amount of work I'm putting into our car and static it's creating between my wife and I just trying to get it done I'm not sure how I'd react watching that happen. It wouldn't be good I'm sure. If you don't mind saying, how'd it go down after the car was towed back to paddock?  Were you guys able to get it going for 2nd day?

  • From: Villa Park, IL
  • Registered: 2010-12-12
  • Posts: 1,338

Re: Rust, How does Lemons feel about it?

Car never ran again. We had to ask the track to use a wrecker to lift it onto the trailer. It was so twisted the passenger side frame rail was actually past where the outside of the car would normally be.
I'll try to post a few pictures later.

Newest member - White Trash Racing
Owner of the Traveling Hat
  • From: Villa Park, IL
  • Registered: 2010-12-12
  • Posts: 1,338

Re: Rust, How does Lemons feel about it?

Sorry to have disappeared for a bit. I suck at this computer stuff so I hope this link works.

http://s1142.photobucket.com/user/cabin … ns%20Jetta

Newest member - White Trash Racing
Owner of the Traveling Hat
  • From: Villa Park, IL
  • Registered: 2010-12-12
  • Posts: 1,338

Re: Rust, How does Lemons feel about it?

Looks like it worked. There are a few build shots in there as well as pre and post crash at Road America.

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Owner of the Traveling Hat
  • From: Antioch, IL
  • Registered: 2016-06-08
  • Posts: 101

Re: Rust, How does Lemons feel about it?

Cool! Sweet cage.

When you patched the floor did you go over the floor or cut out bad floor? Does floor patches for the purpose of covering holes require welding? I have mine full size 20 Ga. just covering the whole floor. I drove tek screws around the perimeter where the solid part was lapped & welded at factory. I am prepared to replace them with rivets if tek screws don't fly at Lemons. I'm new so I don't know any better tongue.

I did trim loose material that could possibly come off. I know I don't want the car in front of me losing chunks that can flatten our sweet sweet tires.

  • From: Villa Park, IL
  • Registered: 2010-12-12
  • Posts: 1,338

Re: Rust, How does Lemons feel about it?

meistro wrote:

Cool! Sweet cage.

When you patched the floor did you go over the floor or cut out bad floor? Does floor patches for the purpose of covering holes require welding? I have mine full size 20 Ga. just covering the whole floor. I drove tek screws around the perimeter where the solid part was lapped & welded at factory. I am prepared to replace them with rivets if tek screws don't fly at Lemons. I'm new so I don't know any better tongue.

I did trim loose material that could possibly come off. I know I don't want the car in front of me losing chunks that can flatten our sweet sweet tires.

I ground out anything that would fall off and then welded a sheet over it. There should be at least one picture of the patch panels in that batch.
My understanding is that they don't like Tek screws in case they back out. Pop rivets I've never heard of being an issue. I just solid welded because I didn't want fire to find any kind of openings in the car.

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Owner of the Traveling Hat