Topic: Radios - important? Cheaper options?

I feel like radio communications would be important for an endurance race like this, but it looks like we can spend upwards of $1000 for a race radio system and helmet kits for all drivers. How important are the radios?  What options have worked well for others that won't break the bank?

Thanks in advance!

Re: Radios - important? Cheaper options?

I've been doing this since 2009 and I've used radios only a couple of times. Cowdriver bought some really nice stuff for us to use and he handled the install and managed the radio while in the pits and that one time the radio experience was actually a fun little bonus.

Please take note that I have a couple of half-time "regular" arrive-and-drives and typically 2 slow slow slow class C cars at most west coast races. Perspective may be entirely different for Class B and A cars or more competitive teams.

I bought some midland or some such radios and some cheap earbuds and mics, and they have not been very enjoyable to use. It / they became another layer of complication for my team and how I run things.

Same goes for gopros/video cameras.

If I have a team member who wants to use radios or cameras and who wants to take full responsibility for preparing them to work with each driver and in each car and who wants to manage the radio in the pits, I'm all for that and it's great. But to put that stuff on me when I'm already responsible for most everything else that has to do with the car... It doesn't work for me. The benefits aren't worth the effort/cost. I have a hard enough time just keeping the car working and on track let alone worrying about "racing" stuff.

So, with that in mind: If you are the primary car person, have another teammate handle the radio stuff if you want to go down that route.

Re: Radios - important? Cheaper options?

GeeksOfTheStreets wrote:

What options have worked well for others that won't break the bank?

We just have a pit board, which in our case is simply a big piece of foam board with our car number spraypainted on one side. I went the fancy route and made a stencil before painting it so the numbers look halfway okay.

We've never found a need to communicate anything to a driver beyond "come in now" via the pit board and even that has averaged about one instance for every three or four races. Our drivers sometimes warn us that they're preparing to come in by holding up a hand with raised fingers for a countdown (four laps to go, three laps...) as they drive past an agreed location, but even that isn't a big deal. Usually our drivers stay out for a prearranged duration (which makes it vital for the car to have a highly visible clock and/or timer) or, if someone comes in early, the underlying issues almost never would have been significantly easier or faster to resolve had we been talking in advance.

Keep in mind all this is from someone who fields one of the slowest cars in the entire series, but I'm pretty sure the absence of radios is not to blame for that.

1982 MG Metro 1300: IOE 2015 Pacific Northworst GP, Longest Distance 2010 Cd'L Box Wine Country Classic
1980 KV Mini 1: Worst of Show and Fright Pig Supremo 2009 Concours d'Lemons
1978 H Special: Second-Round Elimination 2010 Lemons Pinewood Derby at Sears Pointless
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Re: Radios - important? Cheaper options?

We bought some Motorola hand helds and a harness kit from a guy named Troy in Texas who used to post on here.  Total cost was under $500.  Note that for anything bigger than a CB you will need a license.

We tried CB's, could never find a channel at the track that we weren't sharing with 2-3 other teams.

Love the Motorolas.  We can stay in contact with the driver anywhere on the track, know exactly what's going on, when he's coming in, etc.

If you just want to have fun, don't bother.  If you want to be remotely competitive, have good alerts on when the driver is coming in, etc, then radios are worthwhile.

bs

Re: Radios - important? Cheaper options?

Motorolla 350/352 radios are darn good. just need a kit to hook it up in the car and good to go.  Just have to have it such that it has clear antenna shot out of the car. I modified mine where I can have external antenna connected to it. Works great overall. Not as expensive as it sounds. I think I ended up in $300 price range to make it all work.
This is like an investment. So going cheapest will end up coming back. Might as well just get correct stuff and be done with it.

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Re: Radios - important? Cheaper options?

Contact Troy and be done with it.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Radios - important? Cheaper options?

You can go as insane as you want with radios. At the end of the day you don't need them, but they're nice to have. Some teams chat away constantly on the radio. My team is mostly quiet. We radio to setup pit stops, and warn of major incidents and not much else.

The easiest way to get radios is to buy a pair of midlands and their motorcycle helmet kit. They work out of the box. They don't cover the entirety of every track, and you'll have a lot of competition for channels. But they work. And if you wait to do all your radioing back and forth for when the car is in sight of say pit lane, you'll be ok.

From there the cost only goes up. Rugged radios sells kits through the Lemons store. Troy (nerdie racing) has been doing radio stuff a long time and can help you out. Please don't consider the grey market radios such as the Baofengs unless you fully understand how to program them, what channels you can and can't be on, and the legal implications of using them without a license. Races have been stopped because of teams inadvertently using an emergency channel for their race coms. It's not a good time for anyone.

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Re: Radios - important? Cheaper options?

TheEngineer wrote:

...and the legal implications of using them....

This is also worth reviewing before attempting to modify an FRS/GMRS handheld, such as the various Motorola Talkabouts, to work with a separate antenna.

1982 MG Metro 1300: IOE 2015 Pacific Northworst GP, Longest Distance 2010 Cd'L Box Wine Country Classic
1980 KV Mini 1: Worst of Show and Fright Pig Supremo 2009 Concours d'Lemons
1978 H Special: Second-Round Elimination 2010 Lemons Pinewood Derby at Sears Pointless
1967 SAAB 96: IOE 2012 Pacific Northworst GP, Organizer's Choice 2022 Hell on Wheels California Rally

Re: Radios - important? Cheaper options?

We've used a couple different crappy radios. It's worth trying but get something with an earpiece. We mainly used it to tell the driver to come in for a black flag, or tell the crew you're coming in for a black flag.

One alternative I've seen that worked well was a team had something tied to a short rope they could throw out the passenger window to tell the crew they were coming in on the next lap. Can't remember if it was a rag or stuffed animal, but it worked for them.

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Re: Radios - important? Cheaper options?

Mediocre radios are worse than no radios. We had the Midlands but they weren't loud enough for green-flag racing, and the multi-pin connectors on the motorcycle kit got beat up pretty quickly with the many connect/disconnect cycles we put them through.

Motorola Talkabouts with a harness & headsets from Troy are good.

Making your own custom-molded earbuds are a big help. Lifehacker featured a link to a good writeup. http://lifehacker.com/5787610/diy-custo … headphones

Then you also have some nice custom-molded earbuds for stuff like plane trips. smile

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Re: Radios - important? Cheaper options?

If you're racing to win I believe you need well-functioning radios.  If you're racing and want to chat for fun, you need adequate radios.  If you are otherwise unconcerned with knowing anything from the pit/paddock and listening to a team mate while in the car is a huge annoyance then radios are a HUGE waste of money that could be better spent on beer.

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Re: Radios - important? Cheaper options?

cpchampion wrote:

Mediocre radios are worse than no radios. We had the Midlands but they weren't loud enough for green-flag racing, and the multi-pin connectors on the motorcycle kit got beat up pretty quickly with the many connect/disconnect cycles we put them through.

Motorola Talkabouts with a harness & headsets from Troy are good.

Making your own custom-molded earbuds are a big help. Lifehacker featured a link to a good writeup. http://lifehacker.com/5787610/diy-custo … headphones

Then you also have some nice custom-molded earbuds for stuff like plane trips. smile

A note about the Midland GMRS radios and their volume level.  If you search my posts on here there is a schematic showing how I used an MP3 amplifier to boost the volume level.  It requires a few adapters but it does work.  That said, their range is no where near what is advertised (unless you are on an open body of water) so their low volume problem is often moot.  If you are interested, I have like 6 of these that I'd like to sell you cheap.

Another vote for custom molded ear buds.  They work SO much better, and are WAY more comfortable for a 2-hour stint.  We got ours from www.earfuze.com.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Radios - important? Cheaper options?

VKZ24 wrote:

That said, their range is no where near what is advertised (unless you are on an open body of water) so their low volume problem is often moot.


No radio out there can hit the range it advertises, because all those ranges are in fact for ideal conditions on open water. The motorolas are not better in that respect. I've used almost every bubble pack gmrs radio out there on various group drives, and I always came back to the midlands because their sound quality was better and their range seemed slightly better than the motorolas.

Adding a volume booster is possible and cheap.

Mediocre radios are fine if you work within their constraints. We used midlands for years to great success. We learned what sections of track they could cover and what sections they couldn't and then made sure the car was in those areas before trying to talk. Worked great. Yes the midland connectors were fragile. I replaced those eventually.

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Re: Radios - important? Cheaper options?

So, you can do the radio thing reasonably, but the helmet kits can add up.
Many teams that have A&D drivers just use a timer in the car for stint length.
Having ALL team members responsible for radio participation can be challenging.
Some, have limited radio experience, and others don't want to be bothered.
If you're not trying to win, or improve your placement, I wouldn't bother until you're 4 or 5 races in.

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15 (edited by VKZ24 2016-07-20 05:08 AM)

Re: Radios - important? Cheaper options?

DelinquentRacer wrote:

So, you can do the radio thing reasonably, but the helmet kits can add up.

Troy's helmet kits are only $25 each.  All his stuff is top notch and he has great customer service.  I've been running his equipment for 7 years and only had one problem and he helped me fix that one at the track earlier this year.  Here's a link to his website...

Nerdie Racing

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

16 (edited by Team Infinniti 2016-07-20 07:46 AM)

Re: Radios - important? Cheaper options?

Opinions based on personal experience, we need radios to "win"

After 4 failed attempts/false starts using cobbled GMRS motorcycle radios, CB stuff, low watt motorola china copies and such, it aint worth the struggle , either jump to something with detachable antennas and battery eliminator kits or just stick with smoke signals and signs, would have spent less $ taking my own advice but no Im smart, gotta cobble...

We now have some solid, non-cobbled stuff.

+1 on Nerdie racing helmet kits and buttons they are the best !

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Re: Radios - important? Cheaper options?

if you don't know exactly what you're doing, and exactly what will work, just buy a setup pre-made for racing.

We tried to save a few bucks, and ended up cycling through quite an assortment of radios and connection hardware trying to make something work like we wanted it to.   Probably would have been cheaper to just buy a pre-packaged set.    Of course, the good side of making up something yourself, means you can get exactly what you want (assuming it works)

Our setup is that everybody brings a pair of in-ear earbuds, or something else that is comfortable under a helmet.   We have a bunch of cheap head-worn microphones  http://www.parts-express.com/pyle-pmem1 … --248-4474    We stick the cords out under our helmets, and we attach 2 connectors to the car right above the headrest on the outboard side of the seat.    PTT is on the steering wheel, and volume is on the radio itself (a properly licensed Kenwood TK3202)    Works great.   Well, after we worked out all the kinks (which took quite a while)    Earbuds work as earplugs for those loud cars.   Sound quality is pretty good in both directions.

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Re: Radios - important? Cheaper options?

For us it was nice the first few stints the first time we raced. But then it really doesn't matter much.

The (not so rugged) PTT button from RuggedRadios broke after a while, so we could only get PIT-> driver.

But it didn't matter at all!

The biggest use we found was for the driver to say he was doing an early pit stop. Then the crew can get ready instead of walking around eating doritos.

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