Re: Middle finger

FPRbuzz wrote:

We use the finger as our "I'm coming in" signal. It's so meaningless in modern society.

Maybe to the millenials and generation X, but to most of us older folk it is still relevant.

"She's a brick house" 57th out of 121 and 5th in Class C, There Goes the Neighborhood 2013
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"PA Posse" 29th out of 133 and Class C WINNER, Halloween Hooptiefest 2013
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Re: Middle finger

I wont use it because I know what that finger means, and frankly yinz just aren't my type. wink

It Ain't My Fault

Re: Middle finger

If you're gonna do it... Do it with feeling

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LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.

29 (edited by VKZ24 2016-08-05 01:45 PM)

Re: Middle finger

RobL wrote:

You talk about just driving the racing line.  If you are driving on that, you are making your car big and wide especially if you are 'leaving room' from the track edges.  Someone who is a little faster than you might need a little help from you to make the pass easy and without drama.  IE if they caught up to you, they are faster, let them pass, you are not in the same race.  If you continue to drive the 'racing line' with cars queueing behind you,  well...

Give me a guy that knows and drives the line (when there is room to do so of course) over the jackass that drives in the MIDDLE of the damn track when he has nobody beside or in front of him.  Driving with predictability when you a slower car is the key to no drama in IMO.  If you are in the middle before corner entry, I have no idea if you plan to move left, right, or stay the course.

Regarding using 'the finger' and other gestures, I have done it maybe twice since I started 8 years ago.  I don't recall receiving one, but if I did it's really no big deal to me.  I'm pretty good with point-bys because I had a ton of HPDE experience in a slower car before I started wheel-to-wheel racing.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

30 (edited by El_Macho 2016-08-05 03:12 PM)

Re: Middle finger

Lo! It is I, the nefarious Volvo-driving bird-flipper. Curious that the original poster doesn't want to call anyone out or make it about any one team, but meanwhile posts a screenshot of me driving the only Volvo wagon with a dog in the back of it at T-Hill. So let's address this instance specifically: as discussed by another poster, we were running either first or second overall in the Volvo at that point. OP, operating #199 blue "petty crash" Subaru and not in the race, perhaps afflicted with the Cavalier effect, decided he would not let me pass. He very aggressively -- moreso than ANY other car out there -- moved to block me whenever he could. Not race me. Block me. So when I finally got around him, I showed him he's #1 and with good reason. To illustrate the point more clearly: merely four corners after that screenshot, in turn 5, he made contact with the left rear of the Volvo while overdriving his car trying to keep up and "race" me. I've got both front and rear video that I'll sync and upload at some point soon (I'm traveling presently w/o the files) so you can see what I'm talking about. 

As to issuing and receiving the bird generally: no one should be surprised that they get flipped off when they're aggressively blocking a faster car.

Re: Middle finger

El_Macho wrote:

Lo! It is I, the nefarious Volvo-driving bird-flipper. Curious that the original poster doesn't want to call anyone out or make it about any one team, but meanwhile posts a screenshot of me driving the only Volvo wagon with a dog in the back of it at T-Hill. So let's address this instance specifically: as discussed by another poster, we were running either first or second overall in the Volvo at that point. OP, operating #199 blue "petty crash" Subaru and not in the race, perhaps afflicted with the Cavalier effect, decided he would not let me pass. He very aggressively -- moreso than ANY other car out there -- moved to block me whenever he could. Not race me. Block me. So when I finally got around him, I showed him he's #1 and with good reason. To illustrate the point more clearly: merely four corners after that screenshot, in turn 5, he made contact with the left rear of the Volvo while overdriving his car trying to keep up and "race" me. I've got both front and rear video that I'll sync and upload at some point soon (I'm traveling presently w/o the files) so you can see what I'm talking about. 

As to issuing and receiving the bird generally: no one should be surprised that they get flipped off when they're aggressively blocking a faster car.

Ah.  The plot thickens.  Can't wait to see that video..

bs

Re: Middle finger

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/jspop.gif

Re: Middle finger

El_Macho wrote:

Lo! It is I, the nefarious Volvo-driving bird-flipper. Curious that the original poster doesn't want to call anyone out or make it about any one team, but meanwhile posts a screenshot of me driving the only Volvo wagon with a dog in the back of it at T-Hill. So let's address this instance specifically: as discussed by another poster, we were running either first or second overall in the Volvo at that point. OP, operating #199 blue "petty crash" Subaru and not in the race, perhaps afflicted with the Cavalier effect, decided he would not let me pass. He very aggressively -- moreso than ANY other car out there -- moved to block me whenever he could. Not race me. Block me. So when I finally got around him, I showed him he's #1 and with good reason. To illustrate the point more clearly: merely four corners after that screenshot, in turn 5, he made contact with the left rear of the Volvo while overdriving his car trying to keep up and "race" me. I've got both front and rear video that I'll sync and upload at some point soon (I'm traveling presently w/o the files) so you can see what I'm talking about. 

As to issuing and receiving the bird generally: no one should be surprised that they get flipped off when they're aggressively blocking a faster car.

Like I told you in our private conversation, I never moved to block you.  unless I was passing a slower car I was on the racing line..

like I said from the beginning, I had no intent from calling any driver out.  I never asked to know who the driver was.  I just was curious if this was ok.  Now you have take this personally, that was never my intent. Like I said in our emails I am sorry if you felt I was blocking you.  I was not doing it maliciously.

Re: Middle finger

El_Macho wrote:

I've got both front and rear video that I'll sync and upload at some point soon (I'm traveling presently w/o the files) so you can see what I'm talking about.

I asked for this exact thing from the OP.  Maybe you two can work together and sync all three videos. 

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--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: Middle finger

I have only ever said this once...ever...in the Lemons forums and this will be the second.  Its Anton...the most level-headed, amazingly, fast, smooth and possibly most respected driver in all the series...take the lumps and let it go or even better let it be a learning experience.

Any other outcome will make you look like the original Johnny Real Racer.

36 (edited by CPT_Trans_Continental 2016-08-05 05:31 PM)

Re: Middle finger

bshorey wrote:

Ah.  The plot thickens.  Can't wait to see that video..

Here is the preview.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20708720/George%20Scooter%20Race.gif

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Re: Middle finger

BrianZ wrote:
El_Macho wrote:

Lo! It is I, the nefarious Volvo-driving bird-flipper. Curious that the original poster doesn't want to call anyone out or make it about any one team, but meanwhile posts a screenshot of me driving the only Volvo wagon with a dog in the back of it at T-Hill. So let's address this instance specifically: as discussed by another poster, we were running either first or second overall in the Volvo at that point. OP, operating #199 blue "petty crash" Subaru and not in the race, perhaps afflicted with the Cavalier effect, decided he would not let me pass. He very aggressively -- moreso than ANY other car out there -- moved to block me whenever he could. Not race me. Block me. So when I finally got around him, I showed him he's #1 and with good reason. To illustrate the point more clearly: merely four corners after that screenshot, in turn 5, he made contact with the left rear of the Volvo while overdriving his car trying to keep up and "race" me. I've got both front and rear video that I'll sync and upload at some point soon (I'm traveling presently w/o the files) so you can see what I'm talking about. 

As to issuing and receiving the bird generally: no one should be surprised that they get flipped off when they're aggressively blocking a faster car.

Like I told you in our private conversation, I never moved to block you.  unless I was passing a slower car I was on the racing line..

like I said from the beginning, I had no intent from calling any driver out.  I never asked to know who the driver was.  I just was curious if this was ok.  Now you have take this personally, that was never my intent. Like I said in our emails I am sorry if you felt I was blocking you.  I was not doing it maliciously.

Ah, but if you're taking the racing (more likely, time trial?) line, and somebody is trying to get by you, then that could very well come across as a block to the guy trying to get by you.

The video will be interesting to see.  What might seem to be perfectly normal to you may look completely different to the guy behind you.

bs

Re: Middle finger

OnkelUdo wrote:

I have only ever said this once...ever...in the Lemons forums and this will be the second.  Its Anton...the most level-headed, amazingly, fast, smooth and possibly most respected driver in all the series...take the lumps and let it go or even better let it be a learning experience.

Any other outcome will make you look like the original Johnny Real Racer.

Is there another level headed, amazingly fast, and possibly most respected Anton?  The one I know goes by X-args.

bs

39 (edited by ninjacoco 2016-08-05 11:43 PM)

Re: Middle finger

FPRbuzz wrote:

Meh, it's just a finger.

That.

I mean, if horn use is highly discouraged, you've got to do something.

Re: Middle finger

bshorey wrote:
OnkelUdo wrote:

I have only ever said this once...ever...in the Lemons forums and this will be the second.  Its Anton...the most level-headed, amazingly, fast, smooth and possibly most respected driver in all the series...take the lumps and let it go or even better let it be a learning experience.

Any other outcome will make you look like the original Johnny Real Racer.

Is there another level headed, amazingly fast, and possibly most respected Anton?  The one I know goes by X-args.

bs

Argh, now I am the prick (not the first time)...never post while drinking and brewing beer.  You are correct but it would have been funny.  Only time I ever saw Anton lose his cool even a little was in the rain at Gingerman with a certain red Prelude.

Re: Middle finger

bshorey wrote:


Ah, but if you're taking the racing (more likely, time trial?) line, and somebody is trying to get by you, then that could very well come across as a block to the guy trying to get by you.

bs

Even into w2w racing there is the racing line.. Most sanctioning bodys spell out who has the right to it, Lemons just says don't make contact.

This is exactly why I apologized for what was was seen as blocking.  But it seems like that's not good enough.  I did not want this thread to become a pissing match.. Just to find the views of everyone about the use middle finger.

Re: Middle finger

OnkelUdo wrote:
bshorey wrote:
OnkelUdo wrote:

I have only ever said this once...ever...in the Lemons forums and this will be the second.  Its Anton...the most level-headed, amazingly, fast, smooth and possibly most respected driver in all the series...take the lumps and let it go or even better let it be a learning experience.

Any other outcome will make you look like the original Johnny Real Racer.

Is there another level headed, amazingly fast, and possibly most respected Anton?  The one I know goes by X-args.

bs

Argh, now I am the prick (not the first time)...never post while drinking and brewing beer.  You are correct but it would have been funny.  Only time I ever saw Anton lose his cool even a little was in the rain at Gingerman with a certain red Prelude.

Those Prelude guys had it coming.

As I already said on the Book of Face, the Volvo guys were still making marginal moves in traffic during this period. Which didn't help them later on. smile

The gold-painted plywood award goes to Cerveza for clean traffic management.

All that aside, Brian Z - c'mon man, I have a hard time believing you're keeping a straight face saying 'I was just driving the line...' I've run across you other times in that car at other races and consciously or not you block like crazy.

Cheers
-Anton

2x Volvo PV544 (RIP '63) B20 power!
2007/2012/2013 Driver's Championship (what was I thinking!?) 142 races and counting.
2/25/24

Re: Middle finger

X-args wrote:

Those Prelude guys had it coming.

Without a doubt!  I have to give them props for being much less of pricks on the track the last two races.  They are no worse than the average class A team with with more will than common sense.

Re: Middle finger

bshorey wrote:
BrianZ wrote:
El_Macho wrote:

Lo! It is I, the nefarious Volvo-driving bird-flipper. Curious that the original poster doesn't want to call anyone out or make it about any one team, but meanwhile posts a screenshot of me driving the only Volvo wagon with a dog in the back of it at T-Hill. So let's address this instance specifically: as discussed by another poster, we were running either first or second overall in the Volvo at that point. OP, operating #199 blue "petty crash" Subaru and not in the race, perhaps afflicted with the Cavalier effect, decided he would not let me pass. He very aggressively -- moreso than ANY other car out there -- moved to block me whenever he could. Not race me. Block me. So when I finally got around him, I showed him he's #1 and with good reason. To illustrate the point more clearly: merely four corners after that screenshot, in turn 5, he made contact with the left rear of the Volvo while overdriving his car trying to keep up and "race" me. I've got both front and rear video that I'll sync and upload at some point soon (I'm traveling presently w/o the files) so you can see what I'm talking about. 

As to issuing and receiving the bird generally: no one should be surprised that they get flipped off when they're aggressively blocking a faster car.

Like I told you in our private conversation, I never moved to block you.  unless I was passing a slower car I was on the racing line..

like I said from the beginning, I had no intent from calling any driver out.  I never asked to know who the driver was.  I just was curious if this was ok.  Now you have take this personally, that was never my intent. Like I said in our emails I am sorry if you felt I was blocking you.  I was not doing it maliciously.

Ah, but if you're taking the racing (more likely, time trial?) line, and somebody is trying to get by you, then that could very well come across as a block to the guy trying to get by you.

The video will be interesting to see.  What might seem to be perfectly normal to you may look completely different to the guy behind you.

bs


Excellent point...something I try to figure out at each race....who are the fast cars, who keeps passing me, who am I actually racing, who do I keep catching up to, who drives erratically, who shows up unexpectedly in my rear all the time, which cars need a lot of room, etc.  And even then, teams have drivers of various skill levels and driving styles.
Like they say, in traffic- lane driving, alone- line driving.

I struggle at races with driving fast in a line, but at the same time, giving faster cars the opportunity to pass.  And, in fact, some cars need very little room to just blow right by me, but some cars are about the same as mine, and can barely pass me on the straights....but as noted previously, if they caught up to me, they are likely either faster or better drivers....passing is fun, but it is a pain in the behind when there are a bunch of fast cars up my ass....

MarioKart Driving School: 1987 Honda Prelude Si (Opus #28) 
Loudon, NH 2014 - Millville, NJ, Lightening 2019 (RIP)
New and improved: 1987 Honda Prelude Si (Opus #11) Pittsburgh, PA 2021 - ??
and finally won something, Class C Win: Loudon, NH 2022

Re: Middle finger

Anyone who has spent any decent amount of time on the forums should get a pretty clear sense  that "I had the line" is a STRONGLY ridiculed concept in Lemons. F*@( "your" line. Which is what I believe is being conveyed with the original finger in question.

46 (edited by TeamLemon-aid 2016-08-06 10:09 PM)

Re: Middle finger

I think the above statement is mostly true.   smile  GTF out of the way!!!!  But we try to give the benefit of the doubt.... Pause... And if you don't do well we try to just roll eyes and not flip you off.  If you block repeatedly.. THEN boooo yeahhhh!!!!!!  smile ha ha ha

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*** none of this is true

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.

Re: Middle finger

MZAVARIN wrote:

Excellent point...something I try to figure out at each race....who are the fast cars, who keeps passing me, who am I actually racing, who do I keep catching up to, who drives erratically, who shows up unexpectedly in my rear all the time, which cars need a lot of room, etc.  And even then, teams have drivers of various skill levels and driving styles.
Like they say, in traffic- lane driving, alone- line driving.

I struggle at races with driving fast in a line, but at the same time, giving faster cars the opportunity to pass.  And, in fact, some cars need very little room to just blow right by me, but some cars are about the same as mine, and can barely pass me on the straights....but as noted previously, if they caught up to me, they are likely either faster or better drivers....passing is fun, but it is a pain in the behind when there are a bunch of fast cars up my ass....

Yup. I drive in my mirrors too much sometimes but some do the opposite. Most good LeMons-ers keep an eye out for fast guys and keep out of their way (if not competing with them). And many fast guys are appreciative of that and will wave. The opposite extreme is also true.

-Robert, Party Sheep Racing
The Jerry Lundegaard GMAC Financing Award, Joliet 2013 [Cutlass Ciera w/ Iron Duke]
Eta E30: IL Fall '15, MI Spring '16, IL Summer '16, MI Spring '17, KY '17, MI Summer '21, KY '21, MI Summer '21, MI Fall '22

Re: Middle finger

BrianZ wrote:

I did not want this thread to become a pissing match.. Just to find the views of everyone about the use middle finger.

I think we're getting there.  What I'm learning is that the views on the use of the middle finger seem to be dependent on the behavior of the drivers on both sides leading up to the use of said finger.

As for a pissing match, what were you expecting?  Everybody to just agree that it's reprehensible that somebody gave you the finger?  The only real pissing match I see going on in this thread is between you and everybody else who are hinting that you might be part of the problem.

If it were me, and I was in a discussion where pretty much everybody was telling me that my driving style might be problematic, I'd be doing a little soul searching, and thinking that perhaps my insistence on 'owning the line' might be a contributing factor to the way other people on the track are reacting to me.

bs

Re: Middle finger

Repeating a lot of what's been said but here is my take.....if you catch me I'll let you go past at an opportune time for us both and I'll chase  you hard as I can but I will never intentionally block. That just slows everyone down and puts everyone at risk.
My fastest times have been following fast cars, watching their lines and brake points. Live and learn from those around you!

Apocalyptic Racing - Occupy Pit Lane racing
Racing the "Toylet" Toyota Celica powered by Chevrolet Ecotec.
24x Loser with the Celica. 16x loser in other fine machines
Overall winner Gingerman 2019

Re: Middle finger

My use of the finger is mostly just instinctive/reactive and is just for my own piece of mind....
I don't expect the offending driver to even see it,much less change his(or her) driving style because of it..
Like I said,it's just a natural response and I forget about it by the next corner...
Just my .02
Mike

45+x Loser.....You'd think I would learn......
5x I.O.E  Winner   1 Heroic Fix Winner   1 Org Choice Winner
2x  I Got Screwed Winner    2x Class C Winner
(Still a Class B driver in a Class A car)