Middle finger (Page 3 of 5)

Our car is surely not the fastest, but you have to know, at least IMO, where you are in the standings relevant to the other cars, especially the leaders.  That is yet a another good reason to have a working radio.  Here one instance that comes to mind:

Barber Race 2015.  This was our first race in the new car (drove and old Prelude for 5 years prior) and we had a few growing pains.  Transponder issues, driver got sick in the car, almost lost a wheel, etc.  By the last hour or so of the race we were in like 20th place or something and the Road Warrior E30 is driving the wheels off trying to catch the race leading Save The TaTas Camaro.  I have a radio, my team watches Race Monitor, so we all know who the leaders are.  They radio to remind me and to keep an eye out.  As I see the Road Warriors closing, I move OFF THE RACING LINE, and point them by so they can move on a dice it out with the Camaro.  Of course I have the right to just drive the line and say f*ck you to these guys, but I'm in 20th place so I move over as a courtesy.  After the race the Road Warriors thanked me for the gesture, and I asked "Would you have done the same if our positions were reversed?"  They said "Absolutely", which is why I did it.  Just mutual respect IMO. 

The flip side of this is when we are doing well (finished 5th ate CMP in the spring) I know who is ahead of and behind me.  When a faster car was dogging me who's running in 20th place, I just point him by.  Why would I hold him up or race him hard when he is like 20 laps down?  Again, knowing what car is in what position helps you manage this.  Get a good radio, get the Race Monitor app on your phone, and keep up with what's going on in the race.

I share in this perverse pleasure. I'm in a slow moving 3500lbs boat. Make a sketchy pass where ever you want as long as it doesn't affect me.

I guess I'll voice the minority opinion.  I think throwing a middle finger (or the Euro equivalent, whatever) is inappropriate and indicates more about the gesturer (<- not a word) than the recipient.

There's a reason why that sort of behavior is prohibited in virtually every sport.  While it is contrary to human nature that competitors always feel respect toward one another, there is value in acting as though they do.  Think what you like about the asshole driver, but treat him or her with maturity and respect and it becomes a habit.  Bitch about it over the radio if you want, but keep your fingers to yourself.

Also, I think that discipline and self-control are hallmarks of the successful driver.  The more effectively you can suppress irritation or anger or whatever on track the sooner you can get back to driving the car.  Spending the time and attention to "communicate" with the guy that pissed you off is counter-productive.  If you think their behavior needs rectifying then consider tracking them down in the paddock for a chat.

Also also, Lemons has a total lack of rules around the whole blocking issue, so it is technically okay to go all rolling-chicane on everybody's ass.  It is neither a good idea nor polite, but it is totally "legal" to race each and every car as hard as you can.  This often leads to the amusing "fine, block the inside; I'll go the long way around" outside fuck-you pass.

Also also also, I find the palms-to-the-sky "what the fuck" gesture to be more relevant in most cases and it helps hone one's knee car control.

Scott

Like button pressed... I'm gonna dig out some video from our last race...

Agreed, I do the same.  I think I've used the finger maybe twice in the 8 years I've been racing.  Now the open palms to the sky better known as the "WTF" gesture, I probably do that 10 times per stint...LOL.

In the 8 years I've been doing this I have only been really riled-up one time by a guy in a slower car that was clearly blocking me on purpose, not just in a corner or two, but for two laps.  At that time I decided he had about 1 more corner before I broke out the old chrome horn on him, but fortunately I got by and didn't have to use it.  I've never ran into that scenario before or since.

Hahaha, I still remember that Mustang? with all the horns and sirens getting the Curse, I guess.

We were in the garage next to them...  You know that was Leh Keen driving.  They kept hitting the sirens at 2-4AM which certainly didn't help them not get the curse.  Also, when they got the curse, they were given time to get parts off the car - They grabbed trick shocks, carbon fiber driveshaft, headers, etc.  Complete and total cheater car. 

Read what OP has been writing...  He came out to race.  So when someone he perceives to be in a car that he can race with comes along, he wants to have that fun with them.  This is reinforced by the fact that El_Macho comes along and said that the driver hit him while overdriving the car trying to keep up.  I understand it.  I like having fun passing and repassing my friends on the track too.  But again, if I'm not in the same race as them, I'll make their passes easy (even with point bys) and not take chances overtaking them back.  It's still racing, we're still having fun but it's not at 10/10ths intensity where a mistake would take us both out.

I don't remember ever getting the finger, but I would look at it as instant feedback on my driving.  Just like a thumbs up for a point by.

I have only raced class C cars, so I get passed a lot.  Our 'team' tries to be predictable and we give point by's early and often. I would reserve my middle finger feed back for those that try and pit other cars behind me or cut me off after a point by.  I'm look at is as just trying to help them improve their driving skills.  I don't actually remember giving the finger, but I am sure I must have at least once.

Being in a slow car, you get passed a lot by the same cars.  Many of the top teams will watch for a point by, pass when they know you see them, or pass at a portion of the track where it is lower risk.  Some other drivers take a little more risk for little gain.  For the courteous teams I know I will point them by earlier.  It also depends on the time of the day as it seems the start of the day, and especially the end of both days are much more aggressive.

It also helps to cruise the paddock at the end of the first day and talk with some of the teams about their perspective about your driving as well as give them constructive feedback on theirs.  It's a lot of work being in a slow car, just like it must be a lot of work in a fast car (I have no direct experience).

I was passed dozens of times by that same Volvo in Arizona in the Excel/Austin America/MG Metro.  I don't remember them being particularly aggressive, at least until they let Steve McDaniel crash into the Model T - GT in it (same Volvo?).

I'm thinking of reinstalling a horn in our car just for this reason.

bs

<<Pressing the "Like" button>>>

I say "thank you" to someone who clearly gets it.   Unless I'm in a pack of cars, or I'm in a super busy section of the track, I always give a "thank you wave" to those courteous drivers who pointed me by.  A lot of us who have and practice courtesy moves/gestures came up through the HPDE ranks and were taught to do so.  Of course some drivers started W2W racing before ever driving on a track, which I don't agree with, but it is what it is, and we all have to just deal with it.

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I always assume it's the passing driver's responsibility to pass safely. I can't always see you coming if there are distractions ahead, and even if I do, faster cars have to pass through my blind spots at one point or another. For example, I chased a car down at Barber this year who was running maybe a second or two slower than me per lap. I had no advantage on the straights, so passing him was pretty tough. I would catch him, not get a clean place to pass, then get backed off by traffic over and over for about 30 minutes before I passed him. He wasn't overtly blocking, but he wasn't leaving much room either, and I think he did the perfect thing. I loved it because passing him was challenging and I wasn't just out there turning laps.

That said, I'll leave racing room for any car that has caught up to me as if they caught me, they're probably faster than me. I will occasionally block if I don't like where they are trying to pass; turn 10b (long course) at gingerman is a great example of this. It's a downhill breaking zone that is easy to overcook; I'm not going to let somebody on the inside of me there because I don't want them sliding out into me if I leave them a lane.

As far as the line is concerned, we all know where it is more or less, which means if you're only driving the line and being predictable, passing can be done safely enough even though it might take a multi corner strategy or going 4 wide around slower cars into turn 1 at Barber. All experienced Lemons racers know the line and they know the difference between predictably driving the line and blocking like an asshole. Newbies generally won't give you the finger because they're either afraid to take their hands off the wheel or have already crashed out. If you got the finger, you done goofed. If you don't know what you did, then you were probably being way too aggro.

I didn't mean to imply that HPDE was the perfect training ground for racing.   It does teach you car control and how to play well with others by communication via hand signals and such.  Knowing the line certainly helps, as opposed to a jack hole who drives in the middle of the track with no clue where he should be.  Before my 1st race I had done probably 50 HPDE events and after 2 laps I told my team (also HPDE veterans) that the ONLY similarity between Lemons racing and HPDE was both involved driving a car on a track!  It was like I was a good swimmer, assuming the side of the pool was close enough, but I had just been thrown into the ocean!

As for your 'not impressed comment, not all HPDE programs are created equal.  My club's program is a non-profit that runs 3 events per year at CMP and VIR.  We focus on teaching how to drive, not on how many dollars goes into the bank.  As long as we break even, we're good.  NASA and others operate as a business and their model is totally different.

Agreed.  Having SOME experience on a race track is a big help!