Topic: How to make a Lemons car in high school/Crown Vic Roll Cage

A couple of friends and I want to make a Lemons car, however we've ran into a issue, the largest of which is, we are all in highschool still. Money is a little short and we need the cheapest way possible to do this. We plan on spending several years building this because none of us have much mechanical knowledge (just youtube and determination), and beucase our parents can still stop us from racing. We've found a few salvaged but working crown vic cop cars for around $150 we would like to use.

If anyone has any advice on A) how to build a regualtion roll cage in a Crown Vic, B) where to find inexpensive saftey parts, or C) anything we should know before we get too involved in this it would be great.

Thanks!

2 (edited by Spank 2016-09-27 11:15 PM)

Re: How to make a Lemons car in high school/Crown Vic Roll Cage

It would be helpful to know where you are located. The local high school to me is one of the few it seems to still have an auto shop class. I'm wanting to head on over there and checking in with the teacher to see what, if any, interest there'd be in a Lemons project that I fund.

If you post your location, you may be able to find an existing team or like-minded idiots who may also have wallets/jobs to help your project move along faster than it would otherwise.

I say get the car running and driving how you want and save the cage for last. Because if you end up needing to sell it before it's full-on racecar, you may still get some $ out of a decently running crown vic w/ new brakes, belts, hoses and so forth than you would with a gutted and partially caged non-running Crown Vic.

Re: How to make a Lemons car in high school/Crown Vic Roll Cage

Hate to be a damper, but the reality is that the car alone will cost you at  least 3k to build if you go bargain hunting on everything. Typically it's 5k+. Plus your own personal safety gear. I don't say this to sway you from the project, it's just good to know what you're getting into.

If you're determined to do this all yourself more power to you, it will be a learning process for sure. Most of it is easy. Go read the rules, then read them again, and then one more time just to make sure you don't miss something. They aren't long. Take some time, read everything you can on the car  you pick. Read everything you can find about common failures, fixes, etc. Replace brakes, check the fuel system, check all the electrical, check the frame for rot.

The cage is going to be your biggest challenge, no matter what route you take. There are three options. First, just pay someone to build it. Expect to pay $1200-$2500 depending on the shop and how well the cage fits the car. You can get a cheaper one that will pass tech, but it might not fit super tight to the car. Or you can pay more for a completely overbuilt cage with lots of extra bars that just make it safer.

If you're trying to do it yourself you're in for some fun. I'm about 90% done building my first cage, and it's been 3 weeks of working every night. I watched every youtube video I could find, read every forum post I could find, and then still panicked before I started about how I was going to do it. Materials are going to run you $500-$700 depending on how good of a deal you find, and how many bars you mess up. I bought 4 sticks of 1.75x.12 tubing totaling about 94ft, and I used about 80ft of it. I screwed up one forward bar, but was able to salvage that as a door bar and smaller piece of harness bar. I got incredibly lucky that I didn't mess up any other bars. I have a number of extra not required bars in my cage because it makes me feel safer.

The third option, there are a number of places that will sell you a pre-bent cage kit based on measurements you send them. And you can usually get the kit shipped to your door for $800-$900. It will be bare bones, but legal. You'll have to do notching and final fitment, but at least all the bends are done. This is probably the best route for savings provided you have someone that can weld. Examples of places are rollcagecomponents.com and S&W race cars.

A word on those last two options. You need someone that can weld. I would not try to weld my own cage if I had only learned a week previously. This is equipment that could save your life. It took a lot of self convincing to get myself comfortable with the idea of welding my own cage. I did a lot of practice on scrap tubing, a lot of weld testing, and then even more practice. And then you still have challenges because a cage gives you a lot of out of position welding. Laying on the car floor with your head in the footwell barely able to see what you're doing while welding one handed is an exciting challenge. Not to say you can't learn welding and do it, just again giving you an idea what you're up against.


Now, and alternate option, buy a car that's already prepped. You'll need all the money up front, and you don't get to build it yourself, but you'll have a turn key car that is ready to go (mostly).

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: How to make a Lemons car in high school/Crown Vic Roll Cage

We are all in the greater Sacramento area. After looking at how much every thing together is going to cost doing it over several years to offset the price a bit seems like a better idea. I know several people who would be happy to help me weld a cage together, so a pre bent cage is probably our best bet.

A pre prepped car would work, but a large part of what we want to do with this project is work on it ourselves and learn how to do everything ourselves. If we buy a pre prepped car and race it and something big breaks, we aren't gonna have any idea how to fix it.

Re: How to make a Lemons car in high school/Crown Vic Roll Cage

Just because you buy a car already built does not mean you won't have to work on it. So far my team has bought 4 different cars that USED to be Lemons cars. We bring them back from the dead and get them going. We have sold one and currently run 3. We will likely sell 2 more at the end of this season and either buy another car or build our own this time.  Just maintain the cars after the abuse of a race and getting them ready for the race take plenty of time/effort and money - so if you guys can rally up a few thousand dollars and buy an existing sorted car it is definitely the best way to get started in this series. 

If interested I likely will have to well sorted Honda Accords for sale. Both stick shifts (one is the prelude tranny) and run VERY well as both have the prelude engine (Vtec) installed as well and are SOLID class B cars. The 97 accord we have with the right drivers can almost keep up with the class A boys as we finished 8th place in the last race overall.

Good luck and let the Madness begin!!

Re: How to make a Lemons car in high school/Crown Vic Roll Cage

TheEngineer wrote:

The third option, there are a number of places that will sell you a pre-bent cage kit based on measurements you send them. And you can usually get the kit shipped to your door for $800-$900. It will be bare bones, but legal. You'll have to do notching and final fitment, but at least all the bends are done. This is probably the best route for savings provided you have someone that can weld. Examples of places are rollcagecomponents.com and S&W race cars.

Your prices are a bit off.  A 1 3/4" DOM cage with X door bars is $650 shipped to my local FedEx dock (or anyplace with a commercial dock) from roll cage components.  shipping distance is key to that but more than 1/3 of the US is covered by their $100 shipping.  You still have to add in about $40 in gas and $25-40 in wire.

Re: How to make a Lemons car in high school/Crown Vic Roll Cage

If you do not know how to weld, and weld well, I would suggest paying someone to build the cage.  Not only is it the most important safety item, it not being built properly is probably the main reason people don't get to race.  Maybe if you get to know some of the other teams in the area they can help you out and weld a prebent cage for you at a good price, but I wouldn't try to learn welding on your cage.

Racing 4 Nickels - 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
2011 SHOWROOM-SCHLOCK SHOOTOUT  IOE Winner
2012 The Chubba Cheddar Enduro Class C winner
Facebook Page

Re: How to make a Lemons car in high school/Crown Vic Roll Cage

So, had ya'll been to a Lemons race yet?

This weekend is Buttonwillow.
If you don't make it to that one to spectate start planning to hit Sonoma 1st week of December.  It is mostly or fully awesome.

The other recommendation that's always given (after 'buy a prebuilt car' and 'find someone who can weld the cage' and 'get your teammates' money up front') is - start off with arrive n' drive time to get a feel for the flow of the lunacy.

(And don't let money slow you down. It'll take long enough as it is.  Go to the bank of Mom and Dad and offer 'em 2% interest - better than the bank, innit?)

Re: How to make a Lemons car in high school/Crown Vic Roll Cage

OnkelUdo wrote:
TheEngineer wrote:

The third option, there are a number of places that will sell you a pre-bent cage kit based on measurements you send them. And you can usually get the kit shipped to your door for $800-$900. It will be bare bones, but legal. You'll have to do notching and final fitment, but at least all the bends are done. This is probably the best route for savings provided you have someone that can weld. Examples of places are rollcagecomponents.com and S&W race cars.

Your prices are a bit off.  A 1 3/4" DOM cage with X door bars is $650 shipped to my local FedEx dock (or anyplace with a commercial dock) from roll cage components.  shipping distance is key to that but more than 1/3 of the US is covered by their $100 shipping.  You still have to add in about $40 in gas and $25-40 in wire.


You're probably right. The cage I bought from Roll cage Components was model specific and came with more bars than their bare bones Lemons cage. It was about $800 to my door I believe. I wanted some nicer features than the basic kit they have.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice