Topic: 2017 Rules updates info request

Any chance of getting a heads up on the upcoming years rule changes? Angelina my 1987 Alfa Milano has been running in the series since 2008 and as such we started out with a Autopower bolt in cage. Through all the years cage rules changes we added floor spreader plates, door X bars, welded up all the joints, added a dash bar, triangulated to the hoop and  a lot more.

I've heard that the bolt in cages are going to be done away with and as such I am looking at a heck of a lot of work in my severely compromised chassis to cut out the old cage and construct a  new one. Very likely the car will fold up in two and crumble into Italian rust dust when the cage comes out. Nine years and 20,000 plus racing miles will do that to a 30 year old car.

So I might just have to go the Viking funeral route with Angelina and start over. But if this is going to come to pass I'd like to know sooner rather than later so I can get the team to help with the herculean task of prepping a new car. ( Alfa of course)

So rules updates?

Anyone else in the same boat?


Greg

1987 Alfa Milano (Bellissima since 2008), Racing since 2008 Stafford Springs,  2nd overall 2011 NJMP, 4th at NHMS 2011, 2nd at Summit 2011, Into the wall hard at Stafford Springs 2011, 2nd at Monticello 2013, 3rd at NHMS 2013, 2nd at NHMS 2016. 2nd at NJMP 2018

25,000 racing miles in 32 races in 10 years. Yes its the same motor. Tell me again how Alfas suck? Update: Big moneyshift = new motor

Re: 2017 Rules updates info request

Probably worth just emailing Jay directly with that one. Maybe you'd be granted a waiver for all the upgrade work you've done?

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: 2017 Rules updates info request

I agree with Chris, at this point its hardly a bolt in cage anymore, very likely they would allow it to remain.  An email to John Pagel is a good idea.

Tom Lomino - Proud to be a 23x Lemons Loser, 3x Class B, and 1x IOE Winner!
Craptain, Team Farfrumwinnin - 1995 Volkswagen Golf #14
Click here to "Like" us on Facebook   Click here for our Youtube Videos
Lifetime Achievement (of hopelessness) Award Winners

Re: 2017 Rules updates info request

RogueLeader wrote:

I agree with Chris, at this point its hardly a bolt in cage anymore, very likely they would allow it to remain.  An email to John Pagel is a good idea.

To make life easier, his e-mail address is john @ evilgeniusracing.com

Re: 2017 Rules updates info request

Greg,

There was discussion on FB a while back regarding bolt in cages no longer being allowed.  We panicked, because we have the same setup as you.  I emailed Jay and John and the response was that we had done all the proper updates, and were grandfathered.  But they also reserved the right to change their mind in the future.

If I were you, I'd just build a proper cage for the new car.  You can get all the hoops so much closer to the pillars, and into the doors, which will give you a ton more space in the car, make getting in and out easier, and also probably be safer.

As an aside, with these damn unibody cars, seam weld and brace everything you can before you throw in the motor and drive train.  I wish we'd known to get ahead of things when we could, as opposed to chasing them as they reared their ugly head.

bs

Re: 2017 Rules updates info request

Yea I'm in the same boat, our Camaro has been racing since 08'  we modified the cage along the way with all the updates....but I was told that I might need to do more.   What "more" was kinda fuzzy at the last event, I heard everything from "remove the bolt in joints"  which I have already welded in....to "Just pull the whole cage out and start again..."

Not trying to be a pain here but if I REALLY have to "start all over"  I might be done racing.  My last roll cage update bill was more then the price of the original roll cage ($1200).  Had I known I would have to do it all over again I WOULD have done so before the last update.

I'm just sayin...

I'm going to shoot John an E mail and see what he says.


Matt rat.

Team Sucker Punch: Winner Class B Doing Time at Joliet 2023 Autobahn ,Winner Org Choice award Were the Elite Meet to Cheat 2015
Chevy Camaro (Tiger striped #38)  (1989-2017 RIP old friend)
Chevy Corvette 1984......and still racing!

Re: 2017 Rules updates info request

Honestly, hate to say it, but if the update was going to be over $1,200, the best bet would have been to just tear out and start over. Our whole cage pro built and TIG welded was only $800 more. Especially with long in the tooth cages, you have to set a cost where replacement is more cost effective than update.

Always watch out for chasing your tail. And always go to John, at the track Cage Inspection is a bit....rushed and err on the side of caution. Especially at a big race.

Make John happy, Print the paper trail out, bring it with you. I've seen some modified bolt ins that look more sound than some of the scratch built I've seen. But I know they ALWAYS end up costing too much more in the long run.

Hopefully you can amortize some of those update costs.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

Re: 2017 Rules updates info request

All three races I took my car to this year, I was told that the old bolt in cages would no longer be allowed. I heard this from 3 different tech guys including Jay. I know Pagel looked at my car the first gman race and concurred that I had to ad more door bars, but I don't recall if he specifically mentioned the bolt in cage or not.

@bshorey - What exactly do you mean about bracing before throwing in the powertrain? Are you talking about chassis flex when you cut out the old cage? I feel like you're talking about a big fat roadblock I'm headed right toward, but I don't understand exactly what I need to do.

Owner of the Knights Templar Neon
A&D of middling proportions

Re: 2017 Rules updates info request

VanillaHaze wrote:

All three races I took my car to this year, I was told that the old bolt in cages would no longer be allowed. I heard this from 3 different tech guys including Jay. I know Pagel looked at my car the first gman race and concurred that I had to ad more door bars, but I don't recall if he specifically mentioned the bolt in cage or not.

@bshorey - What exactly do you mean about bracing before throwing in the powertrain? Are you talking about chassis flex when you cut out the old cage? I feel like you're talking about a big fat roadblock I'm headed right toward, but I don't understand exactly what I need to do.

My comment was kind of Alfa specific - Greg is running the same Alfa Milano chassis that we are.

Basically, after a boatload of races and a few contacts, mostly minor, our unitbody is simply falling apart.  We've gone in and touched things up a number of times, but we're chasing things at this point.  If I were Greg, and looking at moving well developed and proven drive train from his current Milano to a new shell, I'd just spend some time seam welding and adding some reinforcements before putting everything in.

And I wouldn't move over a modified Autopower cage, no matter how good it is.  After driving our Milano, and a few cars with custom built cages, it's night and day.  There is just a lot more room with the custom built, where the builder can more closely follow the contour of the car.  And not have to worry about future rule changes..

bs

Re: 2017 Rules updates info request

bshorey wrote:

My comment was kind of Alfa specific - Greg is running the same Alfa Milano chassis that we are.

Basically, after a boatload of races and a few contacts, mostly minor, our unitbody is simply falling apart.  We've gone in and touched things up a number of times, but we're chasing things at this point.  If I were Greg, and looking at moving well developed and proven drive train from his current Milano to a new shell, I'd just spend some time seam welding and adding some reinforcements before putting everything in.

And I wouldn't move over a modified Autopower cage, no matter how good it is.  After driving our Milano, and a few cars with custom built cages, it's night and day.  There is just a lot more room with the custom built, where the builder can more closely follow the contour of the car.  And not have to worry about future rule changes..

bs

Words of wisdom. If I knew then what I know now the world would be my oyster - well not really but I would be able to stop welding up cracks in my chassis and my car would not under steer like a Chevy chevette.

I'm writing John as I type this. But I know that I really need a fresh start with a solid chassis. Angelina has over 20,000 racing miles on her and she really needs to go to the Lemons Valhalla for tired race cars. But I have very little help with my race efforts and I just can't see building another car right now. So we will see what John and company say.

Greg

1987 Alfa Milano (Bellissima since 2008), Racing since 2008 Stafford Springs,  2nd overall 2011 NJMP, 4th at NHMS 2011, 2nd at Summit 2011, Into the wall hard at Stafford Springs 2011, 2nd at Monticello 2013, 3rd at NHMS 2013, 2nd at NHMS 2016. 2nd at NJMP 2018

25,000 racing miles in 32 races in 10 years. Yes its the same motor. Tell me again how Alfas suck? Update: Big moneyshift = new motor