Topic: FWD Engine for a Swap

I am working on a super secret(ish) build and I am looking for a FWD motor and drive-line to put into it.  I was wondering what people would recommend. Here are my thoughts.

Mazda BP Engine from a Ford Escort GT
PRO'S
-I have it
-Its is mostly intact
-Good platform for turbo or supercharge and has good reliablity
CON'S
-Will have to turbo or supercharge for maximum DOMINATION

Volvo Modular Engine, from a S60 or something.
PRO'S
-Turbo
-Literally tripping over them in junkyards
CON's
-Transmission problems??
-Don't have it
-Not a lot or people running them I think

Dodge Neon 2.4L Turbo
PRO'S
-Turbo
-Do well in Lemons??
CON'S
-Don't have it
-Not sure on availability of parts

Some V6 from a mini van or something
PRO'S
-Linear-ish power
-Easy availability
CON'S
-Might be hard to fit in the car
-Don't have it


Do any of your guys have a recommendations?  I am currently leaning to the Mazda motor because I have it, I'm not sure if getting something else is going to be worth it.  I know I would get more points if I swapped in something strange and highly fragile, but I want this car to kinda work.

Moot Point Racing - 1991 Volvo 240 - #496

Re: FWD Engine for a Swap

The PT Cruiser Turbo engine is the same unit as the neon SRT-4 2.4L engine, but with a different intake manifold. You will probably find that you can buy a whole car with a blown head gasket or a dead automatic transmission for a few hundred bucks. Assuming that you want to run a manual transmission, you should probably try for a PT GT Turbo with a manual trans. The automatic trans control module is built into the ECM, and I don't know that it will operate well if it isn't attached to an automatic trans.

Team Co-Craptain, Los Cerdos Voladores
Plymouth Neon
Yeah, we're horrible...but we're LEAST Horrible

Re: FWD Engine for a Swap

Maxima/Altima/Infitiy/whatever VQ.  Lots of Maxima's and Altima's did go out the door with a manual (at one point almost 40% take rate on the Maxima).

Re: FWD Engine for a Swap

In terms of Value for powah, there's also the J-series of Honda V6s
They are available from a ton of oddesey minivans/accords and go for cheap.

Q: Since you mentioned "super secret" and "swap", are you planning on a Mid/RWD setup?

If so, what transmission would you be considering? The one that comes with your donor engine or another one that matches your application (say a VW bug transmission or Porsche G50 if you are going full cheat)
I have to imagine that a automatic would be the easiest to adapt from FWD to mid- or RWD duty than a manual.
Otherwise, you may be looking at adapting linkages for the shifter and clutch (hydraulic would likely be easier here) or a spendy adapter plate.


No matter what you choose though, it sounds like an interesting project.

Myopic Motorsport's #888 Ceci n'est pas une Citron Thunderbird ("This is not a lemon" but a 1995 tbird w/ 93 V8 swap + shopping cart rear wing + engine mounted frito maker)
2017 Sears Pointless Organizer’s Choice
Frito Making Tbird from 2018 Sears Pointless Engine Heat BBQ - http://goo.gl/csaet4

Re: FWD Engine for a Swap

gunn wrote:

In terms of Value for powah, there's also the J-series of Honda V6s
They are available from a ton of oddesey minivans/accords and go for cheap.

Q: Since you mentioned "super secret" and "swap", are you planning on a Mid/RWD setup?

If so, what transmission would you be considering? The one that comes with your donor engine or another one that matches your application (say a VW bug transmission or Porsche G50 if you are going full cheat)
I have to imagine that a automatic would be the easiest to adapt from FWD to mid- or RWD duty than a manual.
Otherwise, you may be looking at adapting linkages for the shifter and clutch (hydraulic would likely be easier here) or a spendy adapter plate.


No matter what you choose though, it sounds like an interesting project.

Ya its mid/RWD.  I am just going to use the engine and driveline combination from the doner engine.  The transmission that came with the car is not worth adapting onto a new engine.  I definitely would want to go manual, whats really the point of an automatic.  The linkages would be interesting to adapt, although if it has a cable shifter it would be much easier.

Moot Point Racing - 1991 Volvo 240 - #496

Re: FWD Engine for a Swap

Look at the B5 Passat, Audi A4 and TT FWD units.  Longitudinal mounted engine will fit better in the back of whatever you're looking at.

Re: FWD Engine for a Swap

mully006 wrote:
gunn wrote:

In terms of Value for powah, there's also the J-series of Honda V6s
They are available from a ton of oddesey minivans/accords and go for cheap.

Q: Since you mentioned "super secret" and "swap", are you planning on a Mid/RWD setup?

If so, what transmission would you be considering? The one that comes with your donor engine or another one that matches your application (say a VW bug transmission or Porsche G50 if you are going full cheat)
I have to imagine that a automatic would be the easiest to adapt from FWD to mid- or RWD duty than a manual.
Otherwise, you may be looking at adapting linkages for the shifter and clutch (hydraulic would likely be easier here) or a spendy adapter plate.


No matter what you choose though, it sounds like an interesting project.

Ya its mid/RWD.  I am just going to use the engine and driveline combination from the doner engine.  The transmission that came with the car is not worth adapting onto a new engine.  I definitely would want to go manual, whats really the point of an automatic.  The linkages would be interesting to adapt, although if it has a cable shifter it would be much easier.

Well, you could go to a manual for a follow-on race and just get an automatic working to race the first time.

As far as cable vs hydraulic, that's curious. I always thought a hydraulic conversion would be easier as you can just get a longer custom hydraulic line made and be done with it.
-g

Myopic Motorsport's #888 Ceci n'est pas une Citron Thunderbird ("This is not a lemon" but a 1995 tbird w/ 93 V8 swap + shopping cart rear wing + engine mounted frito maker)
2017 Sears Pointless Organizer’s Choice
Frito Making Tbird from 2018 Sears Pointless Engine Heat BBQ - http://goo.gl/csaet4

Re: FWD Engine for a Swap

If you already have a BP, then I can't see using something else. It's reasonably reliable and free, which pretty much hits all of the high points for me.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: FWD Engine for a Swap

rmcdaniels wrote:

If you already have a BP, then I can't see using something else. It's reasonably reliable and free, which pretty much hits all of the high points for me.

Ya this whole thread is more of a thought exercise.  I am 99% sure I'm going with the BP motor.

Moot Point Racing - 1991 Volvo 240 - #496

Re: FWD Engine for a Swap

gunn wrote:

Well, you could go to a manual for a follow-on race and just get an automatic working to race the first time.

As far as cable vs hydraulic, that's curious. I always thought a hydraulic conversion would be easier as you can just get a longer custom hydraulic line made and be done with it.
-g

I was talking a cable operated shifter.  I agree that a hydraulic clutch would be easier to relocate.

Moot Point Racing - 1991 Volvo 240 - #496

Re: FWD Engine for a Swap

Toyota 2GR-FE + Toyota E153 tranny (or celica turbo tranny) = 275 (or more) whp with zero lag.

Re: FWD Engine for a Swap

how are you planning to shift gears? mazda has hard shift lines on the back of the tranny, right? would your new line go below the engine? above the engine?

I am curious how is that usually done. would a cable-driven shifter on top like saturn work better for RWD swap? would automatic be easier for RWD swap?

Re: FWD Engine for a Swap

With a simple air tank, of course.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAoa-KWNM_U

Haha!

Seriously though, we literally cut the shifter out, rotated it 180°, and made the cables a little longer...that's it.

-Nathan - Team Captain, Priority Fail Racing
1997 Golf GTI VR6 Mid Engine

Re: FWD Engine for a Swap

the shaolin wrote:

With a simple air tank, of course.

Be right back, need to learn more about pneumatic.

Re: FWD Engine for a Swap

the shaolin wrote:

ut the shifter out, rotated it 180°, and made the cables a little longer...that's it.

keyword: cables. shfting mechanism mounted on top of the gearbox by any chance? that's what I call "saturn option"

it's different in case of mazda - no cables, hard rods towards the back of the tranny

16 (edited by the shaolin 2016-11-02 05:10 PM)

Re: FWD Engine for a Swap

Yes, the shifter on our VR6 works similarly to one on a Saturn...I have both, incidentally.

Shift rod would certainly be trickier.  I'd find a way to convert to cable shift either by swapping a different shift tower on, or fitting a mechanism to the top of the transmission that acted the shift rods and accepted cables. 

OR

I wonder if you could use some of the ideas from the shift by wire setup shown in the above video into making a simpler system that would be viable on a Lemons car.  Maybe that's electric solenoids mounted on the back of the transmission and microswitches on the shifter...I'm sure you wouldn't have any trouble coding it!  8-)

-Nathan - Team Captain, Priority Fail Racing
1997 Golf GTI VR6 Mid Engine

Re: FWD Engine for a Swap

the shaolin wrote:

by swapping a different shift tower on

No shift tower on this one - on these mazda FWD transmissions you have a rot sticking out of the trans, facing the fuel tank, at the bottom of the trans. you turn that rod left/right and pull/push it to switch gears.

I am not involved with the build in question, got lazy and trying to focus on only software these days smile

Re: FWD Engine for a Swap

So russian is right.  The transmission is shifted by manipulating a shaft with a vertical hole in it.  When you move the sifter to the side it rotates and when you move it forward and backward it moves in and out of the transmission.  My plan to adapt it is to just run a bar under the engine and connect it by the same method as seen in this picture.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/S4iZJE79-_7oIFpY22cDGlY_g3HtbDxn3S2uK1MBEhfMuY28lNTp8KbmSrFTNIjL9VioBQNMZQ=w1920-h1080-rw-no

The purple blocks are bearing for the shaft and they are in line with the axis of the selector coming out of the transmission. The blue thing is the selector on the transmission.

Also russian,  I am the one that has been emailing you.  So you know the details to my super secret project.

Moot Point Racing - 1991 Volvo 240 - #496

Re: FWD Engine for a Swap

Amazing draft!

mully006 wrote:

So you know the details to my super secret project.

I have to confess your secret is for sale to the highest bidder. Even three easy installments of $5 would do it!

Re: FWD Engine for a Swap

the shaolin wrote:

With a simple air tank, of course.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAoa-KWNM_U

Haha!

Seriously though, we literally cut the shifter out, rotated it 180°, and made the cables a little longer...that's it.

I don't think this is what a pneumatic shifter actually works.  I am pretty sure that are not just actuators attached to the standard gear shifter, seams excessively heavy.

I'm pretty sure that proper pneumatic shifters use CO2 and are for paddle shifted dog boxes or something.

Moot Point Racing - 1991 Volvo 240 - #496

Re: FWD Engine for a Swap

russian wrote:

Amazing draft!

mully006 wrote:

So you know the details to my super secret project.

I have to confess your secret is for sale to the highest bidder. Even three easy installments of $5 would do it!

I mean they could also look through my post history.  I have talked about it before hmm maybe I can delete those posts

Moot Point Racing - 1991 Volvo 240 - #496