Topic: First timer cage questions...

So I ordered a roll cage kit from S&W, and we started installing it Saturday. We have a paper copy of the rules and "how not to fail tech" on hand, but we've run into a bit of a snag and I wanted some opinions.
We're building a 4 door E34.
On the backstays, to get the tubes perpendicular to the main hoop and stay within the 6" mounting requirement will put them mounting to the wall between the trunk and passenger compartment which is just sheet metal without any realy strength. So we angled the tubes out a little and could either attach to the wheel well, or build a box and have something square to mount to.
We found it easier to just build a box from the same .125 sheet we're using for spreaders to mount the backstay to, so we didn't have to heat and bend a plate round to the wheel well.
Is this legal or do we just need to bite the proverbial bullet and heat and form a spreader to the wheel well?
Is the tube not being perpendicular a big no-no that's going to cause us grief at tech?

I'll attach a couple pics of what I'm jabbering about so maybe it will make sense.
The tube is canted a little more than it has to be in the pic, I'd like to move it closer to the bend before we weld it in.

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l56/jblack6527/IMG_20170128_204319954_zpsp0uxjgco.jpg

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l56/jblack6527/IMG_20170128_204408544_zpsu4dk0toq.jpg

Re: First timer cage questions...

Maybe I'm missing something, but why not just move the attachment point of the main hoop support closer to the radius?  IIRC 6" is the MAX, not the minimum.



Bill

2020 I.O.E. CT #36 The Rootes Of All Evil,1958 Sunbeam Rapier Convertible (YES 1958!!) & 2019 Judges Choice NJMP
2016 Thompson Speedway #36 Sabrina Duncan's Revenge, IOE Trophy, 5th Place 'C' Class 1977 Ford Pinto
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Re: First timer cage questions...

I would of have the bar down to the floor/frame rail and cover more with the flat plate.  And move it out to the top bend just cut the floor to drop main loop so you can weld all around it. Tech will run his finger all the welds looking for space like his first date in high school !!
Bob

Re: First timer cage questions...

jblack6527 wrote:

We found it easier to just build a box from the same .125 sheet we're using for spreaders to mount the backstay to, so we didn't have to heat and bend a plate round to the wheel well

I don't think there is anything 'wrong' with having the box, but it seems like you made it harder than it had to be.  On our car, we attached the back stays to the wheel well also, but found conforming the plate to the curvature was easy. After welding one side of the plate, it was hot enough to simply bend with a hammer to match the curve.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: First timer cage questions...

-SDR- wrote:

Maybe I'm missing something, but why not just move the attachment point of the main hoop support closer to the radius?  IIRC 6" is the MAX, not the minimum.



Bill

I fully intend to move the bar closer to the radius, I didn't put the tube in personally and didn't realize it was that far off until I posted the thread.

6 (edited by jblack6527 2017-01-31 09:10 AM)

Re: First timer cage questions...

DRVOLKS wrote:

I would of have the bar down to the floor/frame rail and cover more with the flat plate.  And move it out to the top bend just cut the floor to drop main loop so you can weld all around it. Tech will run his finger all the welds looking for space like his first date in high school !!
Bob

Floor/frame rail would have put the backstay at approximately 55 degrees, and we weren't sure how close it needed to be to 45, other than "as close as practical"

Re: First timer cage questions...

VKZ24 wrote:
jblack6527 wrote:

We found it easier to just build a box from the same .125 sheet we're using for spreaders to mount the backstay to, so we didn't have to heat and bend a plate round to the wheel well

I don't think there is anything 'wrong' with having the box, but it seems like you made it harder than it had to be.  On our car, we attached the back stays to the wheel well also, but found conforming the plate to the curvature was easy. After welding one side of the plate, it was hot enough to simply bend with a hammer to match the curve.

It's very likely we made it harder than necessary, that's one thing we all do best. Hahaha.

Re: First timer cage questions...

I did the same thing on my Beetle I got heat from C hump/Lemon on placement, inner wheel well is just sheet metal but the lower frame and floor are ten times stronger . Just send a email on it some one will say yes or no??
Bob Mann 

jblack6527 wrote:
DRVOLKS wrote:

I would of have the bar down to the floor/frame rail and cover more with the flat plate.  And move it out to the top bend just cut the floor to drop main loop so you can weld all around it. Tech will run his finger all the welds looking for space like his first date in high school !!
Bob

Floor/frame rail would have put the backstay at approximately 55 degrees, and we weren't sure how close it needed to be to 45, other than "as close as practical"

Re: First timer cage questions...

DRVOLKS wrote:

inner wheel well is just sheet metal but the lower frame and floor are ten times stronger

Not in my unibody car.  The inner wheel well is thicker metal and stronger due to the curvature compared to the flat floor pan.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: First timer cage questions...

Definitely move the rear downbar so it is either a. on the 'framerail' at the bottom of the wheelwell, or b. right against the door opening.
The 45* is a suggestion to make sure people get the idea that rear bars should not be 6 ft long going to the rear bumper, nor going almost straight down behind the main hoop. The primary consideration is to get the cage mounted to the strongest part of the chassis, so the cage and the chassis reinforce/support each other.

Move the top of the bar so it is inline with the halo. Wherever possible, multiple bars should intersect at nodes.

Jim C.
If God meant for us to race, we'd all have baggy Nomex skin.
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Re: First timer cage questions...

FJ40Jim wrote:

Definitely move the rear downbar so it is either a. on the 'framerail' at the bottom of the wheelwell, or b. right against the door opening.
The 45* is a suggestion to make sure people get the idea that rear bars should not be 6 ft long going to the rear bumper, nor going almost straight down behind the main hoop. The primary consideration is to get the cage mounted to the strongest part of the chassis, so the cage and the chassis reinforce/support each other.

Move the top of the bar so it is inline with the halo. Wherever possible, multiple bars should intersect at nodes.

Alright, thanks for the clarification. That makes complete sense.