Re: Electronic Flags and Leader Lights

Flags do work, and I don't see replacing them anytime soon until and unless an electronic system has proven over time,
so there would be both flags and electronics.   

The in-car device would be battery powered just like a transponder.  And I see the same for the on-track devices, my thoughts
are to have portable battery powered units placed along the track with yellow and perhaps green lights and they relay signals
to each other and the cars as they pass them to cover the entire track.     

Here is the same kind of thing I found in a google.  LEDs consume very little power.

http://motocrossactionmag.com/Uploads/Public/Images/AAA1/lighgtpostsbig.jpg

http://motocrossactionmag.com/news/coul … ion-lights

Re: Electronic Flags and Leader Lights

Would something like a raceceiver work with this concept? I know a lot of dirt tracks make them mandatory now. You could broadcast yellows and trouble. Just throwing it out there.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Raceceive … aQod0ZcDNA

Re: Electronic Flags and Leader Lights

Racecevers work because circle tracks are full yellow any time they are yellow. If you're at turn 2 and hear theres a yellow at turn 12, odds are you won't remember, or are vague on which turn is actually turn 12.

Lights at the flag stations would be nice, but then especially at Sonoma, fully staffed flag stations would be nice....

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL) https://www.facebook.com/groups/MBTLracing/
88 Thunderbird "What's the word? Thunderbird!", "What's the Price? Thirty Twice!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)

29 (edited by Guildenstern 2017-04-08 11:19 PM)

Re: Electronic Flags and Leader Lights

MZAVARIN wrote:

And it would be easy for the judges to call a car in....
Even if it not for a penalty, but for a dragging, sparking exhaust pipe that is about to become a projectile...

Well that goes into my whole long standing diatribe about using the Meatball for mechanical issues since some Hard Chargers like to get away with not coming in for Black Flags.

http://www.flagman.com/mm5/graphics/racing/meatball-racing-flag-mounted.jpg

Note the Avatar image

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL) https://www.facebook.com/groups/MBTLracing/
88 Thunderbird "What's the word? Thunderbird!", "What's the Price? Thirty Twice!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)

Re: Electronic Flags and Leader Lights

TheEngineer wrote:

I really don't understand what is so hard about the current black flag system. You are supposed to look at every flag station every time you go by them. If you aren't there is a good chance you are missing yellow flags and other information. So why is it so hard to look at the station that flys the black flags. Even if we put a light in your car, you still need to look at all flag stations. If you're complaining about missing black flags it just means you're not doing a good enough job paying attention while on track.

Ie main issue is the Flaggers do have a job to do that isn't punishing you for sucking 5 ways to Sunday. On a track with 130 cars, there's more important things they could be doing.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL) https://www.facebook.com/groups/MBTLracing/
88 Thunderbird "What's the word? Thunderbird!", "What's the Price? Thirty Twice!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)

Re: Electronic Flags and Leader Lights

If you want to know who is in first place just download the app "Racemonitor" or go to the timing station and ask.

I don't need any more wires in my car other than the 1000 I already have to deal with.

Re: Electronic Flags and Leader Lights

cheseroo wrote:

The leader light thing seems useless to me and it wouldn't make any difference in the way I drive.  If they are faster, they will pass me.

Technical solutions exist for a lot of things.  I'm wondering who you propose paying for and maintaining all this technology?

Well, we used to time laps with a stop watch, keep track of laps on a clip board, and talk to drivers with a chalk board.  We've made great advances with all of these, and somebody has figured out ways to get them funded and adopted, so why not with flagging?

bs

Re: Electronic Flags and Leader Lights

bshorey wrote:
cheseroo wrote:

The leader light thing seems useless to me and it wouldn't make any difference in the way I drive.  If they are faster, they will pass me.

Technical solutions exist for a lot of things.  I'm wondering who you propose paying for and maintaining all this technology?

Well, we used to time laps with a stop watch, keep track of laps on a clip board, and talk to drivers with a chalk board.  We've made great advances with all of these, and somebody has figured out ways to get them funded and adopted, so why not with flagging?

bs

I'm a tech project manager so I'm aware of technical advances.  I'm also the guy who sometimes gets put in charge of projects with technically interesting solutions but ones that ultimately make people's job harder so I tend to take a pragmatic approach to these types of things.

My take - Relying on lights in cars has too many moving parts.
Too complex to implement in specific track segments only with cars moving in and out of each segment at speed.
The in-car unit would need to be self contained like the transponders.  If you ever saw the K-car wiring, you really don't want us wiring something extra into our cars.
Lots of people (particularly new drivers) tend to target fixate and not see gauges/dash lights, etc.

My suggestion -
Seems to me that most everyone (presumably) is looking out the windshield so if you are going to use tech to replace flags, it seems like someplace out the windshield is where you install your lights.  Like lights in the corner where stuff has gone sideways.  Like the fence lights at Sonoma.  You can't miss those things.  Make them LED and display advertising in non yellow/red colors to pay for itself.  Removes the complexity of moving cars, chasing down people who don't give your tech back after the race and is a matter of running power to the lights and control wiring to the now obsolete flagstands.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita" 
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)
1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless)
1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites) (Sold -> Houston.  Gone and forgotten)

Re: Electronic Flags and Leader Lights

cheseroo wrote:

...running power to the lights and control wiring to the now obsolete flagstands.


Except there still needs to be "Flaggers" in those stands actually observing the track.

When the track can get enough of them. and they show up.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL) https://www.facebook.com/groups/MBTLracing/
88 Thunderbird "What's the word? Thunderbird!", "What's the Price? Thirty Twice!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)

Re: Electronic Flags and Leader Lights

Guildenstern wrote:
cheseroo wrote:

...running power to the lights and control wiring to the now obsolete flagstands.


Except there still needs to be "Flaggers" in those stands actually observing the track.

When the track can get enough of them. and they show up.

The OP's suggestion still falls down then because their solution only deals with removing flags from the flaggers hands but still requires a human to trigger the lights.  Seems flaggers/light-switch-flippers or lack thereof are a different discussion.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita" 
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)
1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless)
1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites) (Sold -> Houston.  Gone and forgotten)