[ Closed ] Why the bump up in class? (Page 2 of 3)

Im still trying to figure out why they want to move our monza to "B"   after 6 races and thousands of dollars spent we actually finish a race and this is what we get    yes we were reletively fast and running well for the first 2 hours but that was because the ONLY guy on the team with any real skill or experience was driving  and after our 4th guy hit the guardrail and everybody collected a few black flags we were lucky to finish   its going to be hard to get people to sign up again knowing we will at best, probably finish in the bottom of "B" class at the next one     
                      If this sounds whiny so be it    I just dont think its fair to let the metro win multiple times before they get bumped and all we do is FINISH ?      opinions ?

I believe they classify by how fast your car is, not how reliable. You said yourself you were relatively fast for 2 hours

If the ONLY way you can get drivers to sign up, as you say, is for the chance to win, you should reconsider your choice of car...and drivers.

I love seeing non-conformal vehicles out competing, that's why I race a Jeep.  We won Class C three races into our career with a magic weekend of good luck, and were promptly bumped to Class B...where we've been struggling ever since.  Any less fun racing against the big boys?  Not really.  If anything it's made us raise our game...and there's nothing more satisfying than passing cars that should be waaaaaay quicker.

-M

After doing almost everything right this weekend and still getting completely shellacked at Summit, I'm not 100% on the move up so much anymore.  At least down at that track the competition is crazy.

There is no thick rulebook with carefully categorized formulas to determine car class (and to offer loopholes for Smokey Yunick types to exploit). There is just Jay and/or me and/or a very small number of classing-qualified assistant judges eyeballing the cars and performing a quick juggling of factors (e.g., type of car, modifications, past performance, general hooptiness, compatibility of car with track layout, etc.). At Summit, it was just me doing the classing, and I made two mistakes: putting the Anti-EPA Cougar and Rust In the Wind Saab-engined 300ZX in Class B. Nobody is whining about the 300ZX now, because it suffered some sort of mechanical problem Sunday (after spending most of the weekend in the top 3) and dropped down a few places, but I feel just as bad about letting that obvious A car into B just because it has a super-cool/stupid engine swap that shouldn't work at all. I put the Cougar into B because it has scattered multiple engines all over the track at every previous race, the suspension looked crappy, and it never occurred to me that it was even possible for a team with drivers good enough to spend an entire weekend turning quick black-flag-free laps— as Anti-EPA Racing did— would be willing to race a Fox Ford. So, I do my best but I screwed up this time, sorry.

As for the Ghetto Motorsports Malibu, yeah, lap times show that it wasn't as quick at Summit as I had expected. This is one of those situations in which I'm dealing with one of the top half-dozen got-their-shit-together teams in the entire series, a team that's up there with Hong Norrth and Eyesore when it comes to going fast while avoiding black flags and doing all the little things that save you 30 seconds here and there in the pits. A team like that in a car that might have 400 horsepower this time, with a suspension that's kind of icky but nowhere near hooptie status… well, I don't want to take chances (I feel the same way when I see such a car with a team I've never seen before, because I assume that every new team in a B+/A- car is stacked top-to-bottom with F1 ringers hired by a billionaire team captain). I probably should have pulled the car out of the inspection line and gone over it more thoroughly when I had the time to do so, and I'll keep this in mind next time. I don't feel as bad about this classing decision as I do about the Cougar and the 300ZX, but I should have given the Ghetto guys a better hearing and will do so next time.

One more thing: this idea that I will give you a residual that lets you make the car faster only applies to cars that utterly dominated C or B (thus mandating a class promotion for the next race) but would be hopelessly uncompetitive in the next higher class without a few improvements. In fact, I've only done this with a half-dozen cars out of the many hundreds that have been bumped up in class, and only with cars that are just barely clinging to the bottom end of their new class.

Yep.  One of my drivers even came over the radio swearing we must be down on power (on day 2) because some of the E30's were blowing by him.  Having dealt with this car going on 5 years now, if that was the case it would explode shortly (trust me).  I explained that if it was he would be pitting soon for a new engine, otherwise everyone else is just going faster we aren't going slower.  2 laps later he set our fastest lap of the weekend and came back with "yeah I guess so..."

Keeping Class C pure is my top priority when classing, because C is the most important class in LeMons. Cars that straddle the C/B line are the toughest calls by far.

We're definitely a team that has had a car bumped up based on class domination and not the quality of the car.  We have won only on driver and car reliability with long shifts, trying to stay out of people's way and minimal black flags.  We're usually in the bottom 10% for fastest lap times, but then we somehow usually get in the top 25% on final laps.  Having won class C by more than 35 laps at the last race, we got bumped up.  It wasn't because we were so good, the car is just too reliable to be in C anymore.  (Having said that, we had to replace the exhaust due to a hole that developed at the end of Saturday venting exhaust into the cabin and burning the shift boot, and we had to remove the alternator, retap a hole and re-attach the alternator to hold the belt tight on Saturday evening... minor stuff... but we were lucky it didn't come to pass during the day on Saturday or we would have been in the paddock for at least an hour).

That grey Monza (I think it was a Monza?) was really fast though.  It's fastest lap was similar to most A cars.  Not sure why they are whining about getting bumped up.  The drivers were just unreliable and the car underachieved.  Phil saw this and bumped them to B.  If that car is driven well and holds together it could easily win class B, and could be a top 5 car. 

I was debating on whether to even say something on the forum, but the above complaints about getting bumped up are kind of ironic.  I wasn't the guy in our Metro at the end of the race on Sunday, but our driver was needlessly harassed by the Monza.  It was slowing down, and speeding up around the Metro and the driver was waving his hands trying to induce a spin, I guess.  Our driver tried slowing down, but the Monza wouldn't leave him alone.  Eventually our driver just came into the hot pits to get some space away from the lunatic.  I let the judges know of the harassment in case something happened.  Not sure why someone would do that.  Certainly not the type of behavior I would expect out of 99% of the Lemons drivers I know.  Funny thing, he came over to our driver at the awards ceremony trying to act all nice, and admitted it to him that he was harrassing him, and was surprised how well he handled the harassment.  Now we'll have to deal with them in class B.  Oh joy.

I'm going to assume you are talking to me.  How is a 1:54 fast lap with the Malibu "showing some speed"?  that is 7 or 8 seconds off the pace.

The thing that I am upset about is classing a car partially based on how the team does with a totally different car.

All I am saying is that if we are going to be put in A class, we will bring a non-cheaty A class car. 

This is a discussion involving something I am trying to get clarification on.  The whining is not for the sake of whining.  Apparently there is no formula (like his Honor mentioned).  I will quit clogging up this thread with posts related to the general discussion of this thread.

Rob

P.S. which car in your sig is the car that is C fast?

The RX7.  Last year;  Reno 62nd fastest lap out of 72, ran the entire 24.  Did some work on it for Arsefreeze and it was 47th quick but still 1.5 secs slower than our most recent C class winner.  Did I ask them about it?  Yep.  In private.  Did I get an explanation?  Yep.  Does it bother me that they keep sticking it in A?  Not really.  Is it concievable that taking a beef like this public will change the situation?  Not so much.

want to slum it up in the lower class? buy a crappier car.