Topic: Radiator protection bumper legal?

So our Honda which is a veteran of several years of Hornet racing on the dirt flat tracks of the midwest has a second bumper installed by the previous owner. It was welded on to protect the radiator and does not extend past the original bumper. Just want confirmation it is legal.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ndCX5qZD7Fg/T-mvEbxwOXI/AAAAAAAAAZY/v73KeaGdUF8/s1280/IMG_0124.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ai8NCQXHNCc/T-mz-zIKvgI/AAAAAAAAAZs/hw8tpVl-5X4/s1280/IMG_0112.JPG

If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something.

14th - Doing Time in Joliet - June 2013
35th - American Irony - October 2012

Re: Radiator protection bumper legal?

By the letter of the law I would say yes, but I would still remove it.  Endurance racing getting air to the radiator is kind of important, also if you come in for making contact to thte penalty box and the first thing they see is a bumper to protect your radiator its sort of going to look like your going out there to hit people.

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Re: Radiator protection bumper legal?

What we did was replace the stock plastic composite bumper with one made from left over roll bar material. It doesn't take up any additional space and the stock bumper cover fits over it just fine. If you get though what we built then the hit was bad enough that something was going to get broken anyway.

If you are going to reinforce anything I would go for adding it in the stock location. As indicated above it won't mess up your airflow for cooling. If you are going to add something at that height make it a lot less restrictive to the airflow than it currently looks.

Re: Radiator protection bumper legal?

Jay's answer to "protection" like this is pretty simple:  Just don't hit anything...

Captain Confused
We might be yellow, but at least we are slow
I'm a WINNER!

Re: Radiator protection bumper legal?

The general rule is, extra protection is OK as long as it does not extend beyond the stock factory outline of the car.  Extra radiator protection is still a good idea, even now that the race series is less contact-oriented.  If a wheel or some other debris comes flying off the car in front of you, or a bird flies into your car, it's nice to have a deflector for these objects.

We affirm that the world's magnificence has been enriched by a new beauty: the beauty of speed. A racing car whose hood is adorned with great pipes, like serpents of an explosive breath- a roaring automobile that seems to run on machine-gun fire is more beautiful than the victory of Samothrace.  --Filippo Marinetti

Re: Radiator protection bumper legal?

It is up high enough that it doesn't really block the upper air intake and of course the lower one has the previously installed wire mesh for rocks/dirt balls etc.

I don't really want to go to the hassle of removing it but I don't want to get grief from the judges either. I kinda like the new line it gives the car. I know the PO put it on there after a rear ending a car and having it ride up over the stock bumper and right into the radiator.

If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something.

14th - Doing Time in Joliet - June 2013
35th - American Irony - October 2012

Re: Radiator protection bumper legal?

mhrir wrote:

It was welded on to protect the radiator and does not extend past the original bumper. Just want confirmation it is legal.

Rule 3.13 isn't limited to things which extend past the bumper, but prohibits "structural elements that extend past the original bodywork line" presumably in any direction.  This bar certainly looks like it extends upwards and sideways beyond the original outline of the body.  In other words, if this item were affixed to a perfectly stock, original car, it would literally (and figuratively) stick out.  Particularly as it was added "to protect the radiator" it sure sounds like the definition of a nerf bar, which is exactly what the rule is intended to prohibit.  I'd say you should get an official ruling before showing up with it, or at least have tools on hand to remove it when you get there, if necessary.

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Longest Distance, 2010 Concours d'LeMons Box Wine Country Classic, 1982 MG Metro 1300
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Re: Radiator protection bumper legal?

I see your point. It definitely sticks up past what the line of the hood and bumper cover is. I have asked for a ruling.

I appreciate all the feedback.

If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something.

14th - Doing Time in Joliet - June 2013
35th - American Irony - October 2012

Re: Radiator protection bumper legal?

Bring a grinder with a cutoff wheel to the  race.  If they don't like it, bring it back 5 minutes later without the bar.

Former Flyin Turd Race Team Captain  Now Silent But Deadly Racing Dictator for life!
Ricky Bobby's Laughing Clown Malt Liquor Thunderbird Turbo Coupe'- 21st @ Capitol Offense 2010, 17th @ DTW Bull Oil 2010
2011-Up in flames, Real Hoopties, off the wall, Capitol Offense 2011 in a clapped out 510, 18/84 @ VIR 24 505 Team America Mustang
2012-????  Real Hoopties, Capitol Offense, VIR 24

Re: Radiator protection bumper legal?

Sir Thomas Crapper wrote:

Bring a grinder with a cutoff wheel to the  race.  If they don't like it, bring it back 5 minutes later without the bar.

<---This

We affirm that the world's magnificence has been enriched by a new beauty: the beauty of speed. A racing car whose hood is adorned with great pipes, like serpents of an explosive breath- a roaring automobile that seems to run on machine-gun fire is more beautiful than the victory of Samothrace.  --Filippo Marinetti

Re: Radiator protection bumper legal?

Disguise the bumper as something else. 

Light bar?

Tow hook mounting point?

I'm sure the Forum Commodians will chime in.  big_smile

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Re: Radiator protection bumper legal?

Got the official ruling. It is NOT legal. Now where did I leave my grinder?

If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something.

14th - Doing Time in Joliet - June 2013
35th - American Irony - October 2012

Re: Radiator protection bumper legal?

Yeah, not legal...

Gosh, my business card says 'Tech Tyrant'

Re: Radiator protection bumper legal?

Where did you find a honda with a k series engine for 500$!!!!!!!

Re: Radiator protection bumper legal?

This is why 80's big bumper cars are so cool!

Team OLD Farts
1987 Porsche 924 "Pac-Man"
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16 (edited by mhrir 2012-06-26 08:41 PM)

Re: Radiator protection bumper legal?

adamjabaay wrote:

Where did you find a honda with a k series engine for 500$!!!!!!!

Sometimes luck walks up and smacks you in the face... It has a junk title + 3 years of racing Hornets. Our team actually had a debate before buying to decide if it would be more merciful the let the owner send it to the scrap yard. Here is the screen shot from Craigslist (I removed the email to protect the innocent):

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-3tR9JAp7IdQ/T-p_IwcSnuI/AAAAAAAAAaw/-Wqchf7zuuE/s912/Screen%2520Shot%25202012-06-26%2520at%252010.22.30%2520PM.png

If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something.

14th - Doing Time in Joliet - June 2013
35th - American Irony - October 2012

Re: Radiator protection bumper legal?

fakest ad ever :-) "registard" was the tipoff.

Rally Baby Racing 87 Audi 4000 CS Quattro, Audi 90 Quattro Coupe, 1975 Mercedes R107, 87 E30 squared, E36, etc., a Lincoln(?!), the Whorenet...
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Re: Radiator protection bumper legal?

We should probably go to dirt tracks in the area and check the results of the Hornet class for car #905.

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Re: Radiator protection bumper legal?

Mike C. wrote:

fakest ad ever :-) "registard" was the tipoff.

At least he showed the proper respect by faking an ad ;-)

Former Flyin Turd Race Team Captain  Now Silent But Deadly Racing Dictator for life!
Ricky Bobby's Laughing Clown Malt Liquor Thunderbird Turbo Coupe'- 21st @ Capitol Offense 2010, 17th @ DTW Bull Oil 2010
2011-Up in flames, Real Hoopties, off the wall, Capitol Offense 2011 in a clapped out 510, 18/84 @ VIR 24 505 Team America Mustang
2012-????  Real Hoopties, Capitol Offense, VIR 24

Re: Radiator protection bumper legal?

I felt bad for the kid. He had big dreams for the car. Unfortunately he picked the wrong car to invest himself emotionally in. The car had a hard life as a flat tracker (and this was after being totalled and junked). The cage is a homemade piece of trash so we have to start from zero there plus no windshield. Fortunately it runs decent but I don't know anything about the engine or how durable they are. Here are some more pictures taken after I brought it home although they don't really capture the beat down crappiness oozing from it.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-b6fZ6sk7ks8/T-sK0qjzE6I/AAAAAAAAAa8/_zRPH3ApLC8/s1280/IMG_0107.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-HyaO9YITJGk/T-sNseEucAI/AAAAAAAAAbI/sF67UHQmMIs/s1280/IMG_0114.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-6bEqoz3RqjQ/T-sOcreyBrI/AAAAAAAAAbQ/-ikkGrk7IYE/s1280/IMG_0115.JPG

If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something.

14th - Doing Time in Joliet - June 2013
35th - American Irony - October 2012

Re: Radiator protection bumper legal?

That cage is errr.. spectacular.

Lorin Mueller
Team Haulin' Ass - 83 Plymouth Scamp
Team Soccer Moms - 93 Dodge Caravan

Re: Radiator protection bumper legal?

Even in that bad of shape, an EP3 is still cheaty as hell.  If the mechanicals and suspension are stock and well sorted it is as quick or quicker than Integra GSRs or Prelude SIs.  Add in the possible reliability a K series engine provides and you've got a runner.  Have we even seen a K engine in Lemons yet?  It might not be prone to failure like the D and B series.
I'll bet you get lots-o-laps, no matter how good your documentation is.  A set of good drivers and that car is capable of walking away with a race.

Captain Confused
We might be yellow, but at least we are slow
I'm a WINNER!

Re: Radiator protection bumper legal?

Well, it is what it is. One of our big motivations was to find as new a car as possible because they are safer with improved crash protection. For example the factory dash bar is like 5" in diameter and there is a factory reinforcement bar on the floor behind the front seats. We figured the more safety designed into the car the better. That this car was purchased on a Lemons budget was the result of careful and patient shopping. Not long before this we strongly considered a 99 VW New Beetle with the 1.8T advertised for $900 but got spooked by the fact that it was a VW. Nuff said.

Otherwise our goal is to just have fun. We don't really care if we get penalty laps. Plus we aren't messing with the drivetrain or suspension so we have no idea what the durability will be.

Here is a picture of the interior
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-eO2Jk_IniDI/T-tUSWYeHnI/AAAAAAAAAb0/uAk2CUHFXLQ/s1280/IMG_0117.JPG

This is the wonderful 2 piece main hoop
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-DNm3l8xwltY/T-tUOeUj_1I/AAAAAAAAAbs/_1C40nYLniI/s1280/IMG_1565.JPG

The quality just speaks for itself
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-_nab9tM1eBs/T-tUG4S2a8I/AAAAAAAAAbc/WT5hXiE72Kk/s912/IMG_1554.jpg

This is the door bar terminating into the door post
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-BE5qPaN-lVc/T-tUMOgr0qI/AAAAAAAAAbk/Hi6FvFOROVo/s912/IMG_1553.jpg

If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something.

14th - Doing Time in Joliet - June 2013
35th - American Irony - October 2012

Re: Radiator protection bumper legal?

mhrir wrote:

This is the door bar terminating into the door post
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-BE5qPaN-lVc/T-tUMOgr0qI/AAAAAAAAAbk/Hi6FvFOROVo/s912/IMG_1553.jpg

what does the lower door bar attach to up front?

Team OK-Speed
Regularly losing in Class A
Soon to start losing in Class C

Re: Radiator protection bumper legal?

That isn't a cage.  That's a pile of steel tubes haphazardly spot welded to the body.  The bends don't look too shabby though- whoever did this did at least have a proper bender, they simply lacked any concept of how a cage should be constructed. 

The seat's probably usable, if not extraordinarily comfortable, but those belts look sun-bleached and would (or should) flunk tech. 

In our 5th race, we creamed a newer Civic with our 40-year old Volvo.  Both drivers were fine, but both cars had to be towed from the track.

We affirm that the world's magnificence has been enriched by a new beauty: the beauty of speed. A racing car whose hood is adorned with great pipes, like serpents of an explosive breath- a roaring automobile that seems to run on machine-gun fire is more beautiful than the victory of Samothrace.  --Filippo Marinetti