Topic: I think a stupid cage question

He short of it.....    Bought a chump car sight un seen trying to save some time.  Drove quite a long way to pick it up, and after get home and understanding the rules better I think I'm screwed.    The change is well built, but was obviously built for another car and the spreader plates are small and not very nicely welded.  There are also 2 sets of back stays already heading behind the rear wheels.      My question is,   Start over or cut it out and make new spreader plates.       Anyone in the Denver area that could make a call before tech would also b helpful

Re: I think a stupid cage question

Post pictures. You can't post them directly here, but you can post them on Facebook and link them here. You can add to the spreaders, and you can cut out the extra backstays, but if the rest is garbage its likely to start from scratch.

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Re: I think a stupid cage question

Definitely post pics. You can link FB and also Photobucket etc.

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Re: I think a stupid cage question

I'll get some on photobucket tonight

Re: I think a stupid cage question

http://s526.photobucket.com/user/dues201/slideshow/

Re: I think a stupid cage question

My opinion, cut it out and start over. I don't think it could ever pass tech. Do you have any idea what kind of tubing it is made of?

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Re: I think a stupid cage question

Plasma, Sawzall, grinder, STAT! 
Cut and scrap that cage. 
We know pics never do anything justice and with that in mind, that thing is still a death trap.

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Re: I think a stupid cage question

It doesn't look good, but I would email John Pagel before you do anything drastic. At a minimum, you'll need to redo the backstays and the plinth boxes. That's assuming that all the tubing is of the proper size and the welds don't suck. It also looks like they installed the front supports pretty far back to get it in line with the frame rail, and I don't know how Lemons tech feels about that. Most of your legs will be outside the cage. I also don't like the look of this picture. There's no way to tell if that short piece of larger tube at the bottom is just a sleeve, or if the main member doesn't go all the way down to the box.

http://i526.photobucket.com/albums/cc341/dues201/IMG_0721.jpg?695

Where are you located? It would be best to have someone who has teched at Lemons before look at it in person. If that's not possible, John can probably tell you what else he would need to see pictures of.

Re: I think a stupid cage question

I'm just south of Denver.     The cage itself is nicely welded, but the attachment to the car is what sucks.    Backstays are a must I know,  just didn't know what the extent was going to be elsewhere.   

If someone was able to look at it I'd feel better before we cut it out or not.

Re: I think a stupid cage question

The front downtubes are what spook me the worst. It might be possible to replace those, redo the backstays and be OK.

Nice KTM, by the way.

Philosophy of life: old age and treachery will ALWAYS overcome youth, enthusiasm and cash. General smartass know it all beer swilling ne'er do well. Avoid eye contact with this person, best avoided completely. 2008 Animal House Racing CMP 'Most Likely To Leave In An Ambulance' 2009 Blind Rodent Racing CMP 2010 Team Galileo CMP 2011 Roundhouse Kick Racing CMP 2012 Road Kill Grill Racing CMP (x2)

Re: I think a stupid cage question

Thanks about the KTMs,  hard to beat supermotos on the street (or sidewalk). 


OK,  I can see the general consensus is that it’s got to go,  Replacing half of it doesn’t seem practical.    Now my next questions,   we’ve got two confident welders / fitters on the team and the roofs already been removed once so to weld in a prefab cage would be better than possible.  I'd stay away from the ERW cages, but there are a few prefab DOM cages out there and with our car being a cavalier, they are pretty common.   Are there any out there that are worth it, or go straight to the cage guys in town?  Can anyone recommend anyone in town if that’s the answer? I've got a couple of verbal rough quotes, but they seem to be WAY off (high) from what I've been reading on here for what teams are spending.

Re: I think a stupid cage question

How far south of Denver?
I know a few guys that do offroad stuff in your area that could do it. 
1 in Aurora, 1 in Colorado Springs (Fountain)

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#20 Border Patrol Cherokee "BPC" 
#22 Pink in the Middle Comanche "Double D"
#24 Green Door Handle Scrapping Corolla

Re: I think a stupid cage question

the cars just in downtown littleton,

Re: I think a stupid cage question

If you are super careful with your grinding, you could theoretically make new front supports coming off the halo. You could even make them longer to land farther forward. That would require new door bars as well, but you really only need them on the driver's side. I'm not sure if that's necessary, though. You might just need to make new boxes.

John Pagel, the chief tech/safety guy of Lemons, can be reached by emailing "pagel at 24hoursoflemons dot com".

It looks like there might be two different sizes of pipe in that cage. I would break out the calipers and measure all the members that are required by Lemons, according to the "How not to fail tech" presentation found here. I'd have to assume that any extra reinforcing bits don't really matter as long as the required parts of the cage are all properly sized.

What's the overall weight of the car? Per the rules, if it's under 3,000 lbs, the tubes can be either 1.5 x .120" or 1.75 x .090". If the car is over 3,000 lbs, it has to be 1.75 x .120". So if your car is under the limit and the required cage members are all 1.75" diameter, you're probably fine. If they're 1.5", or if your car is over 3,000 lbs and they're 1.75", then you may have to drill an inspection hole to determine wall thickness. Don't do this unless John tells you to, though. And don't take my word for any of this.

Re: I think a stupid cage question

just sent you the facebook info for a welder/cage fabricator I know in Aurora via the Lemons email.

Triple Nickel Racing/TGTW Offroad   
#20 Border Patrol Cherokee "BPC" 
#22 Pink in the Middle Comanche "Double D"
#24 Green Door Handle Scrapping Corolla

Re: I think a stupid cage question

does anyone else have a cage guy in the denver area thats reasonable?    I can get the material at an excellent deal through work contacts but the person I had lined up to build the cage hurt himself this morning and is out.

Re: I think a stupid cage question

Just looked at slide show.

Start over.

I do know a guy who knows a guy who maybe can help.

Grant Hughes is north of Denver and has built rally and C$$$$Car cages (ran the Me Goosta E36 cheaturrrr out that way a few weeks back). Pretty sure he's defending his master's thesis or something like that at this minute, but might be worth calling.

http://www.nocoastmotorsports.net/index.html

Good luck!

Re: I think a stupid cage question

I'm no expert, but this fuel cell install looks sketchy as well.  It's it just supported by the lip on the cell?  Looks to be bolted down with the top cover/lid bolts and secured to the car that way. 

Put the cell on a platform; strap it down to said platform. 
http://i526.photobucket.com/albums/cc341/dues201/IMG_0724.jpg?717

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Re: I think a stupid cage question

That cell install won't pass. They want to see a cage around the perimeter of the cell. Yours is just hanging from sheet metal.

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Re: I think a stupid cage question

Wow.... They actually ran that on a race track?

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Re: I think a stupid cage question

What kind of car is it?

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22 (edited by FJ40Jim 2013-05-16 06:07 PM)

Re: I think a stupid cage question

Looks pretty crappy, BUT the main hoop & halo might be save-able.

I would redo the front downbars to get them as far forward as possible.  That will require a bender & new tubing.

Cut out all the crap inside the main hoop and put a proper diagonal inside the hoop from above the drivers head, down to the pass hoop bottom.
Add one harness bar from hoop to diagonal, possibly from leftovers.

Cut all 4 rear downbars out.  Using that material, make 2 short bars from hoop to strut towers.  Add connector from tower to tower, all made from cutout tubes.

Get a real seat!  A Kirkey drag race seat will not pass Lemons roadrace tech.  A good seat can save your life.

Jim C.
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23 (edited by TeamPettyCash 2013-05-17 01:01 AM)

Re: I think a stupid cage question

I'm picking up tubing for my own car in Denver tomorrow, I could swing by and look at what you've got and give you an assessment.  I've done tech inspection for other major race series' (not claiming to be able to give you a pass at Lemons), but I can tell how far you have to go.  The cages I've built for Lemons have passed 15+ tech inspections.

Also, if I get my own car done this weekend I might be able to help cut, bend and re-weld your cage.  Shoot me a PM if you'd like some help.

-Matt

30 Time Loser with Class C, Index of Effluency, I got Screwed and Heroic Fix Trophies who usually races, according to Car and Driver, The Greatest Road Racing Cherokee in History.

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Re: I think a stupid cage question

TeamPettyCash wrote:

I'm picking up tubing for my own car in Denver tomorrow, I could swing by and look at what you've got and give you an assessment.  I've done tech inspection for other major race series' (not claiming to be able to give you a pass at Lemons), but I can tell how far you have to go.  The cages I've built for Lemons have passed 15+ tech inspections.

Also, if I get my own car done this weekend I might be able to help cut, bend and re-weld your cage.  Shoot me a PM if you'd like some help.

-Matt

Hi Matt, I'm on Duesterbeck's team, we need any help you can give and we need it pretty quick if we are going to figure this out before the race. I sent you a pm email. Hope to hear from you. Thanks, Brett

Re: I think a stupid cage question

FJ40Jim wrote:

Looks pretty crappy, BUT the main hoop & halo might be save-able.

I would redo the front downbars to get them as far forward as possible.  That will require a bender & new tubing.

Cut out all the crap inside the main hoop and put a proper diagonal inside the hoop from above the drivers head, down to the pass hoop bottom.
Add one harness bar from hoop to diagonal, possibly from leftovers.

Cut all 4 rear downbars out.  Using that material, make 2 short bars from hoop to strut towers.  Add connector from tower to tower, all made from cutout tubes.

Get a real seat!  A Kirkey drag race seat will not pass Lemons roadrace tech.  A good seat can save your life.

Thank you for the tips -- Particularly about the seat, as we didn't know. That is the seat they used in Chumps, we thought it was o.k. We're new, does it show?!