Thunderhill Test Session

There is def a anti Lemons bias.. and I didn't help our cause any...

I drove my Lemons car (240 Z ) in a HPDE Group 2 class and was told I scared an instructor who was following me so much I could't move up to Group 3 (more open passing)
I went in 2 so I could be on the track with my 16 year old daughter (future Lemons racer) who was in her level 1 class. They run together. There was no passing on the back at all , and only in the two main straights and from 6-8 on the front side. so when you get behind that slow 911, you can't pass so  I started going "off line" and driving all over the new track to check out all the "off line" looks  from over all the blind corners... The instructor riding with the guy in a spec Miata on my tail, who can't pass, but still rode my ass, was freaked out because I was driving all over the track.. He told my group leader he was afraid of me..

I laughed and told my group leader I didn't blame the guy as he had no way of knowing I was scouting the "Lemons line" and though I was a menace to the other NASA drivers..On a positive note, my instructor understood that I was scouting for Lemons and got why was all over the course....

The best part, passing a 911, a new Corvette and an Audi R8 in a $500 car. 

The second best part, having the NASA instructor tell these high HP cars that were complaining about being pushed through all the corners to get out of the way..  He told them if a guy pushing you through all the corners, he is faster than you! If you open it up in the straight and don't let him pass, the guy is going to be on your tail again so let him by...

In the parade laps I saw one car broke down, but the rest of the session I drove everyone behaved.

I got a chance to learn the track.

I saw a ton of HPDE NASA cars wrecked and towed off the track. And when Lemons cars took the track it was filled with debris, especially the transition from the old track to the new track.

I felt like the tech inspector for our car and a friend of ours felt like he could pocket any money he could extort from our teams. First off that got my goat was  charging 1$ for a tech sticker, after we paid $300.27 to drive on the track, really. Then he wanted us to bribe him because there was oil residue on our engine, which has passed Lemons tech something like 16 times.

NASA charged a late entry to another team who we always pit next to another (I get they stepped on it and were late) $100, then they get charged another $10 for a tech sheet because they arrived on Sunday and obviously did not receive the email to print out and have a sheet under their windshield wipers (which they had removed and got more $hit for). Then I watched the same tech inspector take another $5 from them because they had duct tape on their windshield and he could not see if it was cracked, but if you looked from the interior of the car you could clearly see the windshield was intact. All of this left a bad taste in my mouth as to whether or not I would consider participation in another NASA event.

We did not pay NASA to be shaken down in Lemons bribe style, if we knew what we were getting into I would of obliged - for a proper stencil of course.

In reference to the shake down

I was totally willing to pay the $100 at track fee, however did I really need to be at the track at 8:00 to fill out a sheet of paper that could easy given via email ? The added 10.00 for a tech sheet that I couldn't print was kind of B.S. the last straw for me was the 5.00 for not having it on the windshield vs handing it to the tech guy.

I / we needed to run the car to break in a rebuilt motor so I just stood there and took my lumps like a man, however that will me the last 15 bucks NASA ever gets from me.

The overall experience was poor at best. Like I said I understood the late entry (Wednesday) and the added fee.( BTW was there a deadline to enter posted anywhere ? If so I didn't see it.)  I just didn't appreciate the over all attitude and bending over I got from the top down. I mean all this for 2.5 hours of a test session please.

Instead of giving us (Lemons racers) some respect they shook all of us down and treated us like second class racers, and in doing so costing themselves future customers.

Well at least one in my case.

Jimmy
Mutterfokker Motorsport - # 144

He tried to hit me up for $10 for a track map....I told him to go f**k himself......

Well then.  I guess I'm glad I didn't go!  Back to freehand drawing the track while watching youtube videos of people racing on it.  Works pretty well for memorizing things. :shrug:

Hey All,

Just FYI, I brought this thread to the attention of the NorCal regional head of NASA.  I figured enough people were complaining that maybe somebody over there might care about how their personnel are behaving.

I won't go into details, but I will tell you that I got a very sincere response, and they do care.

Hopefully this is just a case of some NASA tech guy reading about Lemons, and bribes, and thinking it's just something we do.

At any rate, I'd urge you to not write them off just yet.  In fact, based on the short back and forth I had, I'm thinking of joining!

bs

Might as well get used to seeing this........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl … Lf-h4FIzW8

Not me,no affiliation,etc....just found it and thought I'd share.....

Mike

Well, that was quick--here's the letter from Jerry:

Hello Lemons Drivers,

I received some very disturbing news about the Lemons / NASA test day last Sunday.  I heard numerous things happened  like our tech crew and maybe other officials taking bribes and extorting money from you guys.  I haven’t finished my investigation to get every last detail, so after you read this, you have any more helpful info, I would appreciate it.

The reports started with an online thread which I forwarded to my top people.  Several of my top guys called to me rat out the fink that instigated this.  Scott Smith, my Nor Cal Manager is the culprit.  He’s out in the boonies right now so I can’t confirm everything until Monday.  However, I have the story from multiple independent reliable sources, that all match up.  So, I am pretty sure I figured out what happened.

Scott Smith is an excellent employee, running two businesses and one charity for me.  He’s a self-starter and go-getter that has really taken ownership in his positions.  This enthusiasm leads to vast improvements along the way.  The downside is that he sometimes oversteps his bounds.  The charity we run is a 501c3 non-profit to teach teens car control skills.  Not one person is paid as it’s truly a labor of love.  Scott runs theses schools for the non-profit corp and does so with a passion, as he has his own personal tragic story.  When we started up this charity, and to this day, we make sure every time we fine someone in NASA the money all goes to the charity.  When we collect wristband money and other small amounts, it goes into the charity.  We often times guilt our our drivers into coughing up to support this worthwhile cause.

As best I can figure, Scott took it upon himself to engineer a shakedown plan to get some bucks from the Lemons drivers.  He instructed our tech guys and other officials to “get some donations, and have fun with it.  Take bribes (in cash, cookies, beer, etc) and use excuses to try to get a few bucks from everyone.”  It was supposed to be a fun way to generate some more money for the teen school.  Also as far as I can tell no real safety issues were compromised and the bribes were taken for a novel cause.  Note- things like cookies, beer, etc. was meant as a joke, but if anyone donated that, this kind of stuff always goes to the worker party at the end of the day.

However, just because this is what happened, doesn’t make it right at all.  While our NASA guys know all about the teen school and go along with some arm twisting, this was something completely unauthorized and unknown to me.  It’s unacceptable, and I humbly apprize to all Jay Lamm and all Lemons drivers in attendance.  Scott was in no way authorized to implement a program like this, good fun, or not.

I beg those effected to forgive me; this is ultimately my fault.  I am responsible.  I also would beg anyone that was mistreated, shakedown, and/or otherwise forced to make bribes to come to me with anything they would like to add, as well as the amount they are out.  I will make sure they get every penny back in overnight checks.

At NASA we screw up sometimes.  This was by far one of the biggest ever and I can’t tell you guys how sorry I am.

Sincerely,

Jerry Kunzman
Nor Cal Regional Director

Also I will go out and say that if you would have made it known that donations were for a charity and a good cause you may have actually ended up with more money from teams donating instead and going back to our Lemons bribing ways.  The feeling that we are being shook down cause someone wants to pocket the money I can see also making the Lemons teams angry, fake bribing for something we support though we tend to be more than happy to do.

I hope the hear of teams asking for a check to be mailed to them so that the message gets across loud and clear. Send it back later as a donation, but just reading about this made my temperature rise. Don't let the ends justify the means.

For newbies who happen to stumble on this thread at some point: It's also worth of note that safety tech people don't/won't accept bribes. Lemons and their safety staff have made a concerted effort to not touch anything they are offered when they are acting as a safety inspector so as not to cause this very confusion. The BS inspection, however, is a completely different deal. Bribe away for your classing and BS laps.