The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Lemons Newcomers → 3.f.8 carpet removal
Hello,
Must the sound deadening be removed from the car? We would do it to lighten the car of mass but we have more important things to do during the little time we can work on our car. Just trying to focus on a running engine instead.
Unless i hear from you fine people that the sound deadening on the body interior needs to be dry iced out...
(all other caca is removed for our cage and seat work to commence)
Remove as much as you can. If some small patches are stuck you probably should be fine. Its not really a weight thing its a remove of anything that might catch fire and kill you.
BTW welding the cage is an excellent time to find how quickly it can start on fire. See following reading material for examples. http://www.kstreetstudio.com/writing/bookHOFAW.html
Thank you BoB
so, for instance, the stuff at 9 o clock from the shifter in this image?
Wouldn't the car have to be on fire for a long time for that to burn? Better to just practice quick egress from racecar?
thank you for any input, want to pass tech of course but i previously only thought removing this stuff was for weight saving
(just saw your edit, thanks, wish i could take that book out of the library 
[i suppose we'll have some dry ice fun]
For now just get it off of the areas where you need to weld with a decent margin around it. That stuff stinks when it catches on fire from the welding. You can go back and remove the rest as time permits.
Dry ice does work but it's still a pain-- we found that sometimes a heat gun & putty knife followed by a hit with a wire brush was better.
thank you cp champion. will do that too
Worse case scenario you can use the Dry Ice as entertainment..... Dry Ice bombs anyone??? LOL
Sean, my car has the stuff still on spots of the tranny tunnel, just as in your photo. That will not be a problem for tech.
I have found that in most places you can hit it with the round end of a ballpeen hammer and most of it just brakes off. But a few areas they must use more glue.
Dry Ice block with a towel on top of it so you can move it around.
Leather gloves to protect your delicate palms (no really, trust me).
1" Used Wood chisel, flipped over (ramp side down).
Oh man, that stuff is such a PITA to remove! It's going to be a heat gun treatment I think...
I can tell you from experience, directing subordinates to remove the sound deadening works best.
I tried the dry ice thing and that didn't work so well for me.
I instead found that a heat gun plus this multitool w/ the scraper attachement worked like a charm.
http://www.harborfreight.com/oscillatin … 62279.html
we removed maybe half from our 240. I pulled all the furry stuff off the front firewall and chipped away at the rest as time permitted. the dry ice only was so-so at removing it from our car. FYI an unfortunate incident at summit point demonstrated gasoline's effectiveness at dissolving the stuff. "worked" surprisingly well...
Now if you happen to have access to liquid nitrogen that will make very short work of it.
John
Propane torch, fire extinguisher and tolerant neighbors works as well....preferably outdoors.
Two Words: Needle Scaler
Also ear plugs.
Heat gun, a chisel and a mask, whatever that stuff is made of you don't want to breath a lot of it....
Heat gun, air chisel, wife. Don't forget to tell her the tip of the heat gun gets hot.
I tried the dry ice thing and that didn't work so well for me.
I instead found that a heat gun plus this multitool w/ the scraper attachement worked like a charm.
http://www.harborfreight.com/oscillatin … 62279.html
We used a multitool like that and brake cleaner. Real brake cleaner. The "green" stuff didn't work so good but the toxic stuff cut right through it. Just don't do it in an enclosed garage.
gunn wrote:I tried the dry ice thing and that didn't work so well for me.
I instead found that a heat gun plus this multitool w/ the scraper attachement worked like a charm.
http://www.harborfreight.com/oscillatin … 62279.htmlWe used a multitool like that and brake cleaner. Real brake cleaner. The "green" stuff didn't work so good but the toxic stuff cut right through it. Just do it in an enclosed garage with a spotter and a safe word.
FTFY
Real brake cleaner. The "green" stuff didn't work so good but the toxic stuff cut right through it. Just don't do it in an enclosed garage.
Be careful with real brake cleaner. Leaving even a tiny amount of it on anything you will be welding turns into a real bad day. It turns into phosgene gas and you don't get a 2nd chance with phosgene...
That crap is still on the floor of our merkur, never an issue with the judges.
As an aside, Didnt 3PM's roll royce run with the full interior intact?
Be careful with real brake cleaner. Leaving even a tiny amount of it on anything you will be welding turns into a real bad day. It turns into phosgene gas and you don't get a 2nd chance with phosgene...
Wikipedia even mentions it..
Adventitious occurrence
Upon ultraviolet (UV) radiation in the presence of oxygen, chloroform slowly converts into phosgene by a radical reaction. To suppress this photodegradation, chloroform is often stored in brown-tinted glass containers. Chlorinated compounds used to remove oil from metals, such as automotive brake cleaners, are converted to phosgene by the UV rays of arc welding processes.
And by the time you smell it, the damage is done....
Phosgene is an insidious poison as the odor may not be noticed and symptoms may be slow to appear. The odor detection threshold for phosgene is 0.4 ppm, four times the threshold limit value. Its high toxicity arises from the action of the phosgene on the proteins in the pulmonary alveoli, the site of gas exchange: their damage disrupts the blood-air barrier, causing suffocation. It reacts with the amines of the proteins, causing crosslinking by formation of urea-like linkages, in accord with the reactions discussed above. Phosgene detection badges are worn by those at risk of exposure.
US Army phosgene identification poster from World War II
cabinboy wrote:Real brake cleaner. The "green" stuff didn't work so good but the toxic stuff cut right through it. Just don't do it in an enclosed garage.
Be careful with real brake cleaner. Leaving even a tiny amount of it on anything you will be welding turns into a real bad day. It turns into phosgene gas and you don't get a 2nd chance with phosgene...
yeah, if you're going to use brake cleaner, do the pre-welding removal with mechanical & thermal means, and only resort to the brake cleaner AFTER all the cage is in.
thanks for the great responses. Safe words? who could hear any thing?
allright, a bit of an update:
no dry ice used, and the hammer and hand chisel was like a detention task for misbehaving youth
air needlegun scaler was sweet (any excuse for harbor freight stuff) everything should be air powered
next was a corded hammer drill with a chisel attachment, this was on the top end of hardcore removal , had to be careful as it could have gone right through the metal
some images because i'm not descriptive enough
wish it didn't need to come out, but i guess we lightened the car, and our welding will hopefully be made easier
(cut patch under drivers right knee is for seat fitment easing)
Makita hammer drill with chisel attachment ftw. It probably helped that the material was was 38 degrees sitting in a cold garage. If it was warmer, I think it would have been a slower process. Since it was cold, we did the whole interior in about 20 minutes.
That crap is still on the floor of our merkur, never an issue with the judges.
As an aside, Didnt 3PM's roll royce run with the full interior intact?
We took out the carpet and passenger seat, but still had the door panels and back seat and full dashboard, as we needed the glove box for the grey poupon.
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