Topic: 67 Galaxies, what kind of track alignment do they like?

installed new upper and lower control arm bushings.  When I put it back together, pushed upper control arm full inward.    taking it off the jacks, now has about 90 degrees negative camber. Also feels like lotsa toe out.  haven't had time to check it all yet.   

What should I be shooting for on this big boat?

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Re: 67 Galaxies, what kind of track alignment do they like?

also, if it matters, will be running 245/40/17's on all corners.

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3 (edited by jimbbski 2015-04-22 11:46 AM)

Re: 67 Galaxies, what kind of track alignment do they like?

Most cars, and that means old cars like this will like around 2-3 negative degrees of camber. I learned to drive in a '66 Ford so I know that stock they will roll in the turns. If you did something to correct that or at least lessen the roll then stay with the above number. You don't want to go any more then 3.5 degrees neg. as you will then have tire wear problems and likely tire lock up under braking as you will have a smaller contact patch due to the tire lean.

As far as toe, since this is a rear drive car you want toe to be slightly toe in or at 0 toe to start. I measure toe in inches, that is the difference in the distance between the tires when measured in front and in the rear. I would try for no more then 1/8 inch toe in to 0.

The car may be faster with some toe out but you will have to test
this at a Lemons practice or test N tune session when you can.
Toe out on a rear drive car increases steering response at turn in.
It can sometimes be faster as well due to most cars having "Ackerman" steering built in to the steering system, the amount varies between cars as designed in by the suspension engineers.
Look it up if you don't know what this is. The amount of Ackerman steering can effect how the tires respond and also the slip angles each front tire sees.
Setting the alignment to some amount of "toe out" changes the amount of Ackerman steering the tires see and that's why a car may handle better with toe out and another may not.
It can get very complicated and there are chapters in books written about handling that you would have to read  2-3 times to understand it all.

Re: 67 Galaxies, what kind of track alignment do they like?

Our '64 Dart basically follows what jimbbski said above. We've got a little toe in (~1/8"), which feels nice and stable at higher speeds. A little toe out might make it turn better, but we're honestly not that fast, so we don't care. We started out with ~3 degrees negative camber, but that ended up giving us too much wear on the inner shoulder, so we reduced it to somewhere between 1.5-2 degrees. Our tires now wear pretty evenly. If we drove harder, we might want some more of that camber back.

Our torsion bar front end might behave a bit differently than a Ford, though.

Re: 67 Galaxies, what kind of track alignment do they like?

Don't forget caster. It's kind of magic camber if it's set correctly. I don't have a number to shoot for on your car but definitely look into that.

-Killer B's (as in rally) '84 4000Q 4.2V8. Audis never win?

Re: 67 Galaxies, what kind of track alignment do they like?

Almost all I hear is to get as much positive caster as you can. With the adjustment available on this, I think you could get alot.

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Re: 67 Galaxies, what kind of track alignment do they like?

On a classic Ford with more-or-less stock suspension you will likely run out of adjusting threads on the strut rods before you get into the area of too much caster.  That being said, shoot for +5.0 degrees of caster (or more if you can get it; I'd run +8.0 if I could get there).  One thing to watch out for if you make significant changes to the length of the strut rods is that it can lead to binding if you are using urethane lower control arm bushings (stock-type rubber bushings have enough compliance to avoid binding).

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Re: 67 Galaxies, what kind of track alignment do they like?

I've got 6°45' of caster in my BMW and it feels amazing. Shoot for the stars. You will get straight line stability, wheel centering and camber gain.

Adding a tiny bit of toe out can actually help a boat. You may lose a bit of straight line stability but it will help kill some of the turn-in understeer.

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Re: 67 Galaxies, what kind of track alignment do they like?

I don't know anything about Galaxies, but Caster may be more important than Camber.  Having inadvertently  "designed" a front suspension without caster I can confidently say it is hard to feel what the front end is doing and the car gets a little darty.  Or maybe that's just was a Geo is like when it is all hacked to shit...

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Re: 67 Galaxies, what kind of track alignment do they like?

I didn't even mention caster in my reply since you didn't ask about it but as later posters have said more caster is almost always better for handling. I'm not sure what the stock setting is but something more then 5 deg. but less then 10 deg. is a good number. I also expect that you have power steering so the increased steering effort that comes with increased caster will not be an issue. Just make sure that you have equal caster on each side.

Re: 67 Galaxies, what kind of track alignment do they like?

90 degrees of negative camber?
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Re: 67 Galaxies, what kind of track alignment do they like?

they be layin flat yo.

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Re: 67 Galaxies, what kind of track alignment do they like?

Short twisty tracks, give it some toe out. It will turn in faster, but it will want to turn all the time.

Longer tracks with long straights, 0 toe.

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Re: 67 Galaxies, what kind of track alignment do they like?

I realize toe out / toe in stereotype recommendations are just a generic recommendations but I think too many people give the generic recommendations too much praise/glory without testing. Some vehicles actually benefit from toe in and most from toe out due to their non optimized suspension geometry. Braking, especially in a heavy car needs some consideration as much or close to settings for best handling. The more wonky the tires are pointed the sketchier braking will be.  All I mean is start at zero toe and get a baseline, get comfortable with it. Then try toe out and toe in. You may find it responds better than the normal recommendations and gets better tire wear. No good reason to start with unknown hot tip kind of settings unless you know what you're comparing to. Different tires can get at least slightly different toe, caster, and camber settings too.

-Killer B's (as in rally) '84 4000Q 4.2V8. Audis never win?

Re: 67 Galaxies, what kind of track alignment do they like?

jrbe wrote:

I realize toe out / toe in stereotype recommendations are just a generic recommendations but I think too many people give the generic recommendations too much praise/glory without testing...

I totally agree with the idea of testing. That is the only way that you can really understand the "best" settings for your car.
However, the "generic" recommendations exist for a reason.

FWD/AWD cars need to be set at near 0 Toe for the street because the wheels pull the mass of the car. That causes the suspension to flex in a way that makes the tires toe in. So, for the track, Toe Out is necessary to get the tires to 0 Toe under acceleration. Under braking the suspension will toe out. Baseline settings around 1/8" - 0" Toe out make sense, and then test.

RWD cars push the mass of the car, so the suspension flexes and toes out under acceleration, and under braking. So for the street a good 1/8"-3/16" Toe In is appropriate. For the track, I'd run 0 - < 1/8" as a baseline, and then test.

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Re: 67 Galaxies, what kind of track alignment do they like?

I was figuring zero to 1/8 negative would be a good start, as stated above, with this track.

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17 (edited by jrbe 2015-04-23 09:39 AM)

Re: 67 Galaxies, what kind of track alignment do they like?

DelinquentRacer wrote:
jrbe wrote:

I realize toe out / toe in stereotype recommendations are just a generic recommendations but I think too many people give the generic recommendations too much praise/glory without testing...

I totally agree with the idea of testing. That is the only way that you can really understand the "best" settings for your car.
However, the "generic" recommendations exist for a reason.

FWD/AWD cars need to be set at near 0 Toe for the street because the wheels pull the mass of the car. That causes the suspension to flex in a way that makes the tires toe in. So, for the track, Toe Out is necessary to get the tires to 0 Toe under acceleration. Under braking the suspension will toe out. Baseline settings around 1/8" - 0" Toe out make sense, and then test.

RWD cars push the mass of the car, so the suspension flexes and toes out under acceleration, and under braking. So for the street a good 1/8"-3/16" Toe In is appropriate. For the track, I'd run 0 - < 1/8" as a baseline, and then test.

I think you're making the assumption that when the a arm bushings are loaded by deceleration or acceleration essentially the steering knuckle / wheel bearing housing is moving forward or back and that movement is changing toe. What can be missing from the thinking of the system is when it moves back the tie rod will swing with it. Depending on its design (or lack of) it could toe in, out, or have no change. Basically, just because the a arm bushings are deflecting doesn't mean the system is increasing or decreasing toe because of that movement.

Then there is delrin and bearing suspensions that don't deflect much at all.  Just getting you thinking.

-Killer B's (as in rally) '84 4000Q 4.2V8. Audis never win?

Re: 67 Galaxies, what kind of track alignment do they like?

The thing here is I know what kind of suspension this car has. I drove a '66 for a few years which is the same chassis wise.

Anyway, the car is a rear steer design, that is the steering arms are in the rear of the spindles. Also the suspension is a double A arm style although the lower arm is a single link with a track arm but it still is considered a lower A arm. When this suspension gets loaded the car will lose caster. Toe will change but I can't determine if it will  increase or decrease as this depends on the length of the steering arms on the spindle and if the steering links are angled forward or rearward to the tie rod ends at the spindle. Without actually seeing the car you can't determine this and it's been a long time since I worked on a car like this.

Bottom line, that's why testing is needed to find the best static setting for this car, or any car for that matter.

Re: 67 Galaxies, what kind of track alignment do they like?

Zero toe.

Set the baseline to 2 degrees for camber and 5 or 6 for caster.  Caster is like free camber that doesn't affect braking.  static Camber DOES affect braking.

Since this car appears to be a upper and lower arm type configuration, I would assume (I have no idea!) it has camber gain in its compression travel.  Therefore, you should need less static camber.

Once you get it set in that general area, get out your tire pyrometer.  Get your pressures set so the average of the inside and the outside of the tire matches the temp in the middle of the tire.

If you have done this, you can then tune camber (or camber gain) to make teh inside and outside of the tire closer to the same temp.


This is the proper / scientific way to do this.

Other wise, just throw 3 degrees at it and set toe to zero.  Check tire wear.  If wearing outside, add camber.  If wearing inside, remove camber.

^ that is a good way to ruin a set of tires.  A tire pyrometer (necessary) can be had for less than 1 new tire (worth it!)

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Re: 67 Galaxies, what kind of track alignment do they like?

Shouldn't you be driving to NJ by now???

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Re: 67 Galaxies, what kind of track alignment do they like?

No, he is busy using his manometer.

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Re: 67 Galaxies, what kind of track alignment do they like?

Is this DC Dougs old Parnelli Jones Galaxie?

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Re: 67 Galaxies, what kind of track alignment do they like?

Heck yes!

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