Topic: Help! NJ sucks - we need a set of belts

They are enforcing the two year rule and ours are too old. Their speed shop is out. Anyone have spares or know a close place to buy!

516-203-6940

1992 Saturn SL2 - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner

Re: Help! NJ sucks - we need a set of belts

chaase wrote:

They are enforcing the two year rule and ours are too old. Their speed shop is out. Anyone have spares or know a close place to buy!

516-203-6940

Two year rule?  That's news to me.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
#411
'93 Acura Integra

Re: Help! NJ sucks - we need a set of belts

VKZ24 wrote:
chaase wrote:

They are enforcing the two year rule and ours are too old. Their speed shop is out. Anyone have spares or know a close place to buy!

516-203-6940

Two year rule?  That's news to me.

It's an NJ rule and they are enforcing it

1992 Saturn SL2 - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner

Re: Help! NJ sucks - we need a set of belts

FIA AND SFI or Just SFI (notes for in case I ever get stupid enough to tow to Jersey...)?

Re: Help! NJ sucks - we need a set of belts

http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/info/pdf/ra … ations.pdf

§ 13:62-4.7 Safety belts, shoulder harness and crotch belt
(a) A quick release type safety belt, shoulder harness and
crotch belt in good condition shall be compulsory on all
vehicles.
(b) Both ends of the safety belt, shoulder harness and
crotch belt must be fastened to the frame of the vehicle.
(c) All fittings and connections of the safety belt, shoulder
harness and crotch belt shall be metal.
(d) All safety belts and shoulder harnesses shall be worn
properly the entire time the vehicle is being driven in a race.
(e) All safety belts and shoulder harnesses shall bear the
date of manufacture and shall not be used for more than two
years from that date.
(f) The shoulder harness shall be secured to the frame of
the vehicle and come over a round bar at the driver's shoulder
height.
(g) No alterations shall be allowed to any manufactured
design of seat belts.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita" 
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)
1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless)
1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites) (Sold -> Houston.  Gone and forgotten)

6 (edited by chaase 2016-05-16 06:04 AM)

Re: Help! NJ sucks - we need a set of belts

As an update, we had one of our team mates drove down the belts from our Saturn since they were less than a year old. They were installed by the time tech opened up Saturday morning and we were ready to go for the green.  We found too late that there was a place nearby that sold them but tech was closed.

I hate NJ. There is no business for them to dictate the life of a belt.

1992 Saturn SL2 - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner

Re: Help! NJ sucks - we need a set of belts

The TL;DR version of NJ is that if your belt does not contain an FIA tag, it is only good for 2 years. If it has an FIA tag it's good for 5.

It's super dumb, and I believe in the past lemons has looked the other way on it. This year I think we got pressure to enforce it from the track.

14 Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: Help! NJ sucks - we need a set of belts

TheEngineer wrote:

The TL;DR version of NJ is that if your belt does not contain an FIA tag, it is only good for 2 years. If it has an FIA tag it's good for 5.

It's super dumb, and I believe in the past lemons has looked the other way on it. This year I think we got pressure to enforce it from the track.

Based on what Cheeseroo is saying above it doesn't say FIA vs SFI. It just says two years. What is the real answer? If it is FIA vs SFI we will spend the extra $20-$30 to not deal with the nonsense anymore. If we are stuck paying every 2 years then we won't spend the extra $$$

1992 Saturn SL2 - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner

Re: Help! NJ sucks - we need a set of belts

He has the wrong part, thats for Oval racing, this applies to us:

§ 13:62-3.7 Safety belts, shoulder harness and crotch belt
(a) Safety belts are required at all times for any vehicles
(except motorcycles), and any occupant of any vehicle, that is
allowed on any portion of the race track.
(b) Safety belts for driving schools, time trials, lapping
days, and promotional and tour events must meet the standards
required by the sanctioning body or event organizer. At a
minimum, original vehicle equipment DOT FMVSS 208,
incorporated herein by reference and available at
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/
FMVSS/index.html, seat belts or DOT FMVSS 209,
incorporated herein by reference and available at
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/imp … ndex.html,
aftermarket seat belts shall be required.
(c) All vehicles (except motorcycles) participating in
racing, racing event practice, qualifying or testing shall require
a minimum of a five-point safety belt for each occupant
meeting one of the following standards:
1. SFI 16.1 or SFI 16.5, incorporated herein by
reference and available at http://www. sfifoundation.com,
seat belts shall be valid until December 31st of the second
year after the date of manufacture punched or indicated on
the SFI tag. There shall be one original tag attached to one
of the two shoulder belts, one original tag attached to one
of the lap belts and a third original tag attached to the
crotch belt.
2. FIA 8853, incorporated herein by reference and
available at http://www.fia.com/sport/
Regulations/standregs.html, seat belts shall be valid for
five years from the year of manufacture. Belts are
stamped or printed with an expiration year. FIA seat belts
expire on December 31 of the year printed or stamped on
the FIA tag. FIA tags are located on each leg of the
shoulder belt and lap belt, and on one leg of the crotch
strap.
(d) Safety belts must be installed according to the
manufacturer's recommendations and to the guidelines of the
sanctioning organization.
(e) Four-, five-, and six-point seat belts shall not be used
in conjunction with any original equipment vehicle seat that
has integrated headrest without a direct pass thru for proper
installation of a double shoulder belt.
(f) Crotch straps, in any installation, shall not be routed
around the front of a seat.

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Re: Help! NJ sucks - we need a set of belts

Thanks!

We will probably just go with FIA belts. The price difference in minimal comparatively.

1992 Saturn SL2 - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner

Re: Help! NJ sucks - we need a set of belts

Rouge leader beat me to it. Yes, if you have an FIA belt it is good the full 5 years, which is stamped on the tag itself.

14 Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: Help! NJ sucks - we need a set of belts

So for the next NJ race, I'll get a FIA belt, and send my old belt to Chris Christie, with a nice little note letting him know what I think of their regulations....

MarioKart Driving School: 1987 Honda Prelude Opus #28  (still can't win anything...)

Re: Help! NJ sucks - we need a set of belts

MZAVARIN wrote:

So for the next NJ race, I'll get a FIA belt, and send my old belt to Chris Christie, with a nice little note letting him know what I think of their regulations....


Good luck. There of stories of members here going to the actual meetings and asking the troopers flat out why it's legal to run a 6 month old belt that has been in a hard hit, but not a 3 year old belt that is still sitting in the box never used. The answer is because they say so.

14 Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

14 (edited by meyers0150 2016-05-19 07:21 AM)

Re: Help! NJ sucks - we need a set of belts

I am less upset about the NJ 2 year law than I am about Lemons suddenly enforcing it.  To find out at noon on Friday that your belts are suddenly not legal even though the tech sheet says 5 years and the Lemons NJ race page says NJ law is 2, but use your best judgement.  This insinuates that they are not enforcing the 2 year law, but rather the 5 year rule.  Past years it has stated that they are not the state police, so they don't enforce their rules.  2 years has also never been enforced. 

All I am saying is that a little prior notice by Lemons would have made tech much easier for a lot of teams.  Hopefully they change the wording for next year, but now we all know.

Team Glue Sticks
00 Firebird, 02 X-Type, NX200, 00 Mazda 626 (Sold)
2016 NJMP Heroic Fix, 2017 NJMP Near Heroic Fix except we can't drive

Re: Help! NJ sucks - we need a set of belts

How many teams did this affect?  I could see how it could be a huge fustercluck.  I'm sure some teams had to make quite a long tow, and to arrive and be told that the belt date rule has just changed, that would have really pissed some teams off.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
#411
'93 Acura Integra

Re: Help! NJ sucks - we need a set of belts

VKZ24 wrote:

How many teams did this affect?  I could see how it could be a huge fustercluck.  I'm sure some teams had to make quite a long tow, and to arrive and be told that the belt date rule has just changed, that would have really pissed some teams off.

It was a lot of teams.  The on track store sold out and I understand they were selling them for $350 each.  We lucked out in that another team failed and told us about it.  We had them buy us a set while they were out.  They got lucky too and found a local shop that built them, but apparently they only had 3 SFI tags left in stock.  Also nice is that that shop re-certifies belts.  I am sure some teams had a big drive looking for a new harness.

Team Glue Sticks
00 Firebird, 02 X-Type, NX200, 00 Mazda 626 (Sold)
2016 NJMP Heroic Fix, 2017 NJMP Near Heroic Fix except we can't drive

Re: Help! NJ sucks - we need a set of belts

In the past lemons tech has looked the other way with the implication that a trooper could come in and boot you for it. I suspect (but have no proof)  that the track told them this was not ok anymore. That or they decided it wasn't worth the risk of a few teams getting caught and getting the organization in trouble.

14 Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: Help! NJ sucks - we need a set of belts

I'm not even sure they were enforcing it right ... I heard teams getting failed if their belts were two years old on the date of the FIA tag ... as I read the NJ law,

. SFI 16.1 or SFI 16.5, incorporated herein by
reference and available at http://www. sfifoundation.com,
seat belts shall be valid until December 31st of the second
year after the date of manufacture punched or indicated on
the SFI tag.

So something manufactured March two years and two months ago should have been allowed.   Our belts were ok so I can't say for sure, but I swear I heard a judge saying ... "these went out two weeks ago, I'm sorry but we have to follow the NJ law"

Jeff
Three Pedal Mafia
Ombudsman - Coalition of Alternate Breakfast Meats

Re: Help! NJ sucks - we need a set of belts

and for the record our belts every two years go back to the manufacturer for re-webbing ... for $45 bucks we get a new tag and piece of mind!

not so tragic!

Jeff
Three Pedal Mafia
Ombudsman - Coalition of Alternate Breakfast Meats

Re: Help! NJ sucks - we need a set of belts

meyers0150 wrote:

I am less upset about the NJ 2 year law than I am about Lemons suddenly enforcing it.  To find out at noon on Friday that your belts are suddenly not legal even though the tech sheet says 5 years and the Lemons NJ race page says NJ law is 2, but use your best judgement.  This insinuates that they are not enforcing the 2 year law, but rather the 5 year rule.  Past years it has stated that they are not the state police, so they don't enforce their rules.  2 years has also never been enforced. 

All I am saying is that a little prior notice by Lemons would have made tech much easier for a lot of teams.  Hopefully they change the wording for next year, but now we all know.

You're assuming that the LeMons crew knew in advance.  I'll wager that they found out when they arrived at the track.  Every LeMons event I've been to, if there are potential issues that they are aware of they make an attempt to call it out in the arrival notes.

Don't blame the LeMons folks.  Blame the NJ Morons that think the govt should be in the business of dictating rules at race tracks.

bs

Re: Help! NJ sucks - we need a set of belts

I don't blame them for enforcing the law, liability law being what it is in this country....but I hope they better educate the tech team on what exactly the law is before the next race.  I paid extra to get FIA belts 2 years ago to avoid this problem (good for 5 years in NJ).  I'd have been ticked if they had failed when they are legal under both NJ and LeMons rules. 

As it was, they turn 2 in June...so instead we were told 'Oooooo...you JUST got in under the wire!'

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