Topic: 2 races in and looking for some suspension help

Hello all, I'm from  team Gassholes and Elbows, you may remember us from Sonoma or Thunderhill as the ones in the 97 geo metro. Yes, it's a 1.0 liter 3 cylinder that runs like a top (well, the motor anyway).  We can't afford to do an engine swap on it just yet, so I'm trying to find some cheap or simple ways to tighten the suspension so we don't have to slow down for the turns as much.  It doesn't interchange with many other vehicles, but we are a weld / fabrication shop, so making parts is not out of the question.  I figured the forums would be the best place to start, since I'm sure at least some of you have run into similar issues.  Any help is greatly appreciated

Re: 2 races in and looking for some suspension help

On our Nissan Sentra rally car I wanted to beef up the suspension for cheap, so I bought a set of $50 eBay coilover sleeves/springs and mounted them inside the larger springs that were on the stock struts. It still has the stock springs, and I can move the perches up and down on the coilover sleeves to modify the overall spring rate. It's on a rally car, so I keep them at the top of the sleeve to maximize ground clearance and prevent bottoming out, but I could see doing the same thing on a road course car.

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Re: 2 races in and looking for some suspension help

rmcdaniels wrote:

On our Nissan Sentra rally car I wanted to beef up the suspension for cheap, so I bought a set of $50 eBay coilover sleeves/springs and mounted them inside the larger springs that were on the stock struts. It still has the stock springs, and I can move the perches up and down on the coilover sleeves to modify the overall spring rate. It's on a rally car, so I keep them at the top of the sleeve to maximize ground clearance and prevent bottoming out, but I could see doing the same thing on a road course car.

+1
Make some caster/camber plates for the struts

Re: 2 races in and looking for some suspension help

My happy place seems to be to cut around 1.5 coils, bigger swaybars and slot the strut towers inward and back.  I'm sure there are more gains to be had by going stiffer but I also found that controlling high rate springs can require more shock than is in my budget.  Plus curbs start to beat the hell out of the car when you go super stiff.  Don't have anything FWD but it looks to me like they lock down the rear with spring/swaybar to get them to rotate better.  If you do go stiffer on springs, there is a lot of used generic eibach, etc stuff available on ebay.  If you search for Geo Performance, you probably find something for hundreds of dollars.  If you measure what you have and look for 5 x 8" 300lb springs or whatever, you often can find them for near shipping cost.  Since you can fab stuff, you can alter the strut perches easier than someone like me and get you exactly where you want.  I'll often lurk on forums looking to see if I can figure out what the spring rate/bar size is that XYZ High Dollar racing puts into their "Racing Suspension" pkg for my hooptie and then buy the used eBay eibach/H&R/AFCO/etc stuff to match those rates.

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Re: 2 races in and looking for some suspension help

If noone makes a beefier rear sway for your Geo, how about doubling up on the stock sway bars?
You may have to fabricate mounting brackets but that should be fairly easy if there's enough room to mount a second one below the first one.

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Re: 2 races in and looking for some suspension help

before you dive in too deep. Its a good start to get all the rubber parts fixed.
Its an old car, and all those rubber parts are probably out of spec.
if you stiffen up anything, all those parts will give way, negating your hard work.
PU bushings would be smart way. since you are a shop, you can make all the pins your self. Cast the bushings as you need.
You can also use machinable PU stock if you dont want to cast.
I would stick to PU, and stay away from plastics.
Spherical joints would be fun. Not sure how crazy you are.

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Re: 2 races in and looking for some suspension help

I'm not familiar with the Geo Metro's suspension so how about some pics or info on it.
I would guess struts in the front. What kind of rear, beam axle?
Is the front LCA located by the sway bar or a track bar?

Most front strut and beam axle rear can stand a rear sway bar or a stiffer one is one is fitted stock.
In your case I would bet you don't have one.
Making a rear sway bar or getting one from another model car will depend on the design or the rear suspension.
Some are easy to fab and others not so much.

If the front uses the front sway bar  as a track bar then don't mess with that other then bushings.

Camber can be added but the method depends on the strut to knuckle mount design.

If camber plates are planed using "coil over" springs help as they are almost always smaller in diameter then OEM springs and will allow more
movement of the strut top which will allow more adjustment range for camber.

8 (edited by skivittlerjimb 2016-05-25 10:19 PM)

Re: 2 races in and looking for some suspension help

+1 on fixing any rubber bushings that are shot. Some folks will tell you poly bushings bind too much and they may be right for bushings that pivot and squish often on a race track. Replacing with new stock or harder rubber replicas will be a huge improvement over worn out stock bushings. Also check the play in the tie rods and ball joints and strut tops. While you're at it check the engine mounts and trans mounts and replace them if they're allowing lots of rocking back and forth of the drivetrain. if the suspension is hunting around for it's settled place on any of those parts its hard to make the whole thing stick very well.

Once all of this is done go as wide as you can on your wheels and tires without rubbing anything or poking out beyond the fenders. Also finding the lowest profile tire (if you can fit a 15" wheel on a Metro your tire options will go way up) will lower your ultimate gear ratio, lower the car a bit, and stiffen the overall spring rate a bit with a stiffer sidewall. I'd do all of that stuff before messing with spring rates, sway bars, or dampers.

Of course on a Macpherson strut FWD car, getting max negative camber up front and as much caster as you can is usually a no-brainer, but I'd just zero out the toe as a starting point. I'm not any sort of authority but 30+ Lemons races later this is where I'd start with a new-to-me car.

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Re: 2 races in and looking for some suspension help

thanks everyone for the input. So far I have replaced the bushings on the rear sway bar, installed strut tower bars front and back, and I plan on reinforcing or doubling up the front sway bar ( I was shocked that it actually had one), and replacing the bushings with something harder.  I also replaced the front struts with new OEM parts, as I couldn't find an after market one to match.  It handled much better, but we are still getting a bit too much body roll on the tight turns.  I am going to pull the springs, measure, find a beefier spring set with the same diameter, and cut them down.  There's a couple junk yards not far from here and I think that may help.  We found 14" wheels are about as far as we can go in size, as 15" wheels rub too much, but we were still able to get a set of Falken Azenis for them, which again, made a huge difference.  The part that I'm really trying to manage is the body roll when changing direction quickly, it just takes too long to settle down.  I'll keep you posted. Thanks again.

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Re: 2 races in and looking for some suspension help

Here is an article on the MetroGnome, which used a bike-engine drivetrain but they were still using metro suspension stuff in the early goings. Not sure what it's using now. But page 2 starts the section of "How to make it handle".

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ … Gnome.aspx

Re: 2 races in and looking for some suspension help

This is a handy way to find replacement springs, just find your moog part number then go find something heavier that will fit.
http://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/un … prings.asp

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Re: 2 races in and looking for some suspension help

Brett85p wrote:

This is a handy way to find replacement springs, just find your moog part number then go find something heavier that will fit.
http://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/un … prings.asp

This is fantastic!  I can't believe I haven't seen this before.  Have you used Moog springs?  With what success?

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Re: 2 races in and looking for some suspension help

meyers0150 wrote:
Brett85p wrote:

This is a handy way to find replacement springs, just find your moog part number then go find something heavier that will fit.
http://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/un … prings.asp

This is fantastic!  I can't believe I haven't seen this before.  Have you used Moog springs?  With what success?

Sheesh, it is like Brett's second most common post.

This, and a similar Monroe guide to shocks and a CV/axle/spine reference that my teammate found are invaluable.

14 (edited by Brett85p 2016-05-28 06:26 AM)

Re: 2 races in and looking for some suspension help

OnkelUdo wrote:
meyers0150 wrote:
Brett85p wrote:

This is a handy way to find replacement springs, just find your moog part number then go find something heavier that will fit.
http://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/un … prings.asp

This is fantastic!  I can't believe I haven't seen this before.  Have you used Moog springs?  With what success?

Sheesh, it is like Brett's second most common post.

This, and a similar Monroe guide to shocks and a CV/axle/spine reference that my teammate found are invaluable.

Yes it is and they made it a lot more user friendly than the old spreadsheet.
MOOG springs are fine and can be brought new for around $50 a piece of just use this to find your junkyard donor car.

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24x Loser with the Celica. 16x loser in other fine machines
Overall winner Gingerman 2019

Re: 2 races in and looking for some suspension help

We ran our Geo 3 cyl for 3 years in class C on nothing but cut springs and otherwise stock suspension.   It is plenty to win class C, but you have run near 3 hour stints.

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Re: 2 races in and looking for some suspension help

The first thing you should be doing is buying this book. How to Make your Car Handle.
http://www.amazon.com/How-Make-Your-Car … 0912656468

Then do some math.
1. Build a spring rate calculator so you can go to the JY and find stiffer/lower springs.
2. calculate the roll centers for your car and understand how that effects your car.


Brett85p wrote:

This is a handy way to find replacement springs, just find your moog part number then go find something heavier that will fit.
http://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/un … prings.asp

Similarly Monroe Shocks has a catalog of shocks. get the downloaded list. Look up the correct part for your car, then find the top and bottom connection TYPE, find the min and max length. Adjust your min and max length for lowering the car, and then go through the list and highlight shocks with acceptable mounting TYPEs and similar lengths.

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Re: 2 races in and looking for some suspension help

Not sure what the GEO has but I assume it is a coil spring car. 1st up wold be to buy a good set of shocks/struts. (not the parts store $19 specials).  Then remove the isolaters and cut your springs some. If you can find a Moog part number and cross match it with heavier springs. Tires are important too. Get a nice sticky set.

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