Re: Middle finger

Meh... Slower car probably has no clue the faster car wants to overtake there.   Then faster car flips off slower car for coming down on him (slower car obvious oblivious).  Slower car keep pedaling it and initially faster car gets flustered a little and loses some pace.  Eventually faster car gets back on pace and makes the pass, and slower car tries to keep up and actually goofs.   Trying too hard?

Not to be a "not there, don't know what I'm talking about guy", but I suspect slower car is driving over his head a little and really doesn't understand circumstance and makes a mistake.  Not sure it was malicious. 

Finger waving probably a reasonable "sign"... I probably would've done the two hand up "wtf?"...

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.

102

Re: Middle finger

El_Macho wrote:

Here's the video. Apologies for lack of sound, I dunno what's up with my settings in Adobe Premiere.

https://youtu.be/5fFoV9ykz9s

As always, there is more than one way to take what is seen in the video.  Yes, the guy came down in the beginning, but if I used the finger every time a car did  that to me, I'd never be able to keep two hands on the wheel.  When you said a 'slower car', I thought you meant a IOE-type car.  If that car was *that* slow, it sure looked like he was able to stay ahead of you pretty well to me.  The speed differential wasn't enough of one that if it were me, I would have just 'let you by' either.  After you finally made the pass, it was clear that he wasn't happy about it, and was going to get back in front you, skill be damned.  He clearly was over driving at that point and definitely had no reason to make contact.  One or both of you missed the whole "endurance race" part., unless this was the last 5 minutes of the race, and this was for position, if so I retract that statement.

When I'm in a battle with a 'slower in certain sections than me car' (i.e. a Crown Vic who fast on the straights, but in my way everywhere else) I use the tried and true 'pick-n-roll' method and box them in behind an even slower car.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

103

Re: Middle finger

Katie got flipped off once and came in to let me know.  I cut her off mid sentence.  I told her to settle it out on the track and there is no whining in racing. 

She thundered back on the track and an hour or so later she wasn't angry anymore.  I'm not exactly sure what she did out there but she took care of it.

This space for rent.

104

Re: Middle finger

The speed differential wasn't enough of one that if it were me, I would have just 'let you by' either.

I don't know about that.  He gains 4-5 car lengths going into the first turn.  If someone has that kind of speed and braking on me and I know I'm not racing them, that's a point by.  I give up a little speed and let them have the apex and then we both get on with minimal fuss.   

VKZ24 wrote:

I use the tried and true 'pick-n-roll' method and box them in behind an even slower car.

Which is what he did in the second turn (~0:15 seconds in) but the 199 came across the track anyway. 

From there, it looks like the driver of the camera car then goes into total defensive driving mode trying to get by.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: Middle finger

LemonAid and VK make some good points. The"slow" car is not slow, it's just being over-driven by this driver.

When I see a car driving like that on track I stay as far away as possible. The 30 seconds you might lose by letting him/her crash out is not worth the emotional turmoil of getting upset. If this type of driving bothers you then you won't last long in Lemons. Sit on their tail and wait for the mistake, or use your brain to find some "rolling chicanes" (traffic) to make a clean pass and get some distance.

Patience is a virtue in endurance racing. There is a solution to every problem, but rarely is the solution found when you're driving angry.

Peter St Pierre             #63 Hong Norrth "C" Supra
     5th Place: 2016 CMP Fall
     6th place: 2015 Autobahn 24 hour
     2nd place: 2014 CMP Fall : 17th place: 2014 CMP Southern Discomfort Spring

Re: Middle finger

VKZ24 wrote:

One or both of you missed the whole "endurance race" part., unless this was the last 5 minutes of the race, and this was for position, if so I retract that statement.

Wasn't the last 5 minutes, but was in second place chasing Cerveza mid-day Sunday, so there was more urgency than usual. Otherwise: agreed. Totally.

107 (edited by VKZ24 2016-08-18 07:52 AM)

Re: Middle finger

RobL wrote:

He gains 4-5 car lengths going into the first turn.

I was speaking to AFTER that.  The camera car never even gets to the bumper of the lead car to even attempt a pass until much later.  If he was really that much faster, he would have passed him again much sooner IMO.

As for out braking him, again, if I did every time I was faster that another car, I'd be putting myself into a bad position many, many times as you are never sure if the other driver sees you.  If he in fact sees you, he'll *probably* give you room, if he doesn't, you'll either have to slam on the brakes, or make contact.  Therefore I won't make that move unless I can make it all the way beside him so I'm SURE he can see me.

Again, an endurance race can't be won in one corner, but can surely be lost in that same corner.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

108

Re: Middle finger

https://scontent.ftpa1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/12419301_10204170451700436_6124645353101414646_o.jpg

Letting the crew know the car is good enough...

This space for rent.

109

Re: Middle finger

NSF wrote:

Letting the crew know the car is good enough...

Yea, if the video were a little more clear, I'm getting the same message here from Doug at ECR.

[

Re: Middle finger

BrianZ wrote:

Is the the middle finger during a race considered unsportsmanlike conduct?

This last race a faster car must not have liked something I did then flipped me off.

After seeing the video evidence, the middle finger is absolutely the appropriate response to your driving.

Consider being more aware of other cars (actually in the race) and not thinking there is a deed to the racing line and that you own it.

gunn wrote:

PS. I think unsportsmanlike conduct would be something like intentionally swerving to try and run someone off the track

+1. He who throws stones (or makes call out threads) should make sure they aren't captured by footage that show their own poor sportsmanship.


btw, El_Macho, the dog in the back is hilarious with ears flopping about.

-Robert, Party Sheep Racing
The Jerry Lundegaard GMAC Financing Award, Joliet 2013 [Cutlass Ciera w/ Iron Duke]
Eta E30: IL Fall '15, MI Spring '16, IL Summer '16, MI Spring '17, KY '17, MI Summer '21, KY '21, MI Summer '21, MI Fall '22

Re: Middle finger

Obviously with this much interest in this thread, we need a theme song...

https://youtu.be/u8QjyV8Af2Y

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.

Re: Middle finger

TeamLemon-aid wrote:

Obviously with this much interest in this thread, we need a theme song...

https://youtu.be/u8QjyV8Af2Y

I'm not much into country/western music....but that was hilarious....

"Theme song"??......this could be a car/team theme!!....so what would be an appropriate car for a "Middle Finger" Racing Team????

MarioKart Driving School: 1987 Honda Prelude Si (Opus #28) 
Loudon, NH 2014 - Millville, NJ, Lightening 2019 (RIP)
New and improved: 1987 Honda Prelude Si (Opus #11) Pittsburgh, PA 2021 - ??
and finally won something, Class C Win: Loudon, NH 2022

113 (edited by jrbe 2016-08-21 12:20 PM)

Re: Middle finger

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the blue car darts over into the blend line, no? I thought this was frowned upon / a big deal at most tracks?

I took the blue cars dart over the blend line as here's the line faster guy. I wouldn't consider that the fast line. But being Lemons and mixing in likely no point by it's hard to say what the blue car is really doing, probably trying to take the widest (thinking fastest maybe) line possible. The video car (el-macho?) is likely in the blue cars blind spot which makes blue cars behavior possibly not as intentionally aggressive as it looks.

-Killer B's (as in rally) '84 4000Q 4.2V8. Audis never win?

Re: Middle finger

TeamLemon-aid wrote:

Obviously with this much interest in this thread, we need a theme song...

https://youtu.be/u8QjyV8Af2Y

That music is like someone shitting into my ears.

Re: Middle finger

Well at least you have an opinion... wink

You can always display your middle finger in protest.

El_Macho wrote:
TeamLemon-aid wrote:

Obviously with this much interest in this thread, we need a theme song...

https://youtu.be/u8QjyV8Af2Y

That music is like someone shitting into my ears.

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.

Re: Middle finger

This might make your ears bleed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDTzz4iN-1Q

Re: Middle finger

Read this whole thing.
Expected video to show OP's egregious ridiculousness.
Finally saw the video.
I want my 15 minutes back.

OP: if you didn't see him in your blind spot, then you didn't see him. But once he passed you, it's on you to not hit him.
Macho: if he didn't see you then he deserves a wider berth and a higher percentage pass attempt. Looks to me like the finger reflected your state of mind at the time, which isn't OP's fault. If this was late in the race then you probably had already passed this car at some point and taken mental note of their driving styles and habits. Maybe more video would show more evidence of deliberate blocking but that just looks like a typical Lemons race to me.

That video looks like literally every race I've ever run in Lemons. I'm with vkz24 here. That exact situation happens a dozen times a day to me. We drive a fast-ish class A car in the southeast and, maybe I'm just simple and naive, but I always always assume that the car just doesn't see me when they drive big like that. That assumption is a lot more pleasant than assuming they are deliberately being asshats. But I'm a glass half full kinda dude, so who knows...

Head of Estate
/) come monday motorsports /)

Kick at the darkness until it bleeds daylight.

Re: Middle finger

^  I concur, the post is valid.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita"  1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless) 2002 Jaguar x-type (Winner C-Class 2021 Sears Pointless)
Gone bye-bye
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)  1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites)

Re: Middle finger

After looking at the video, I feel like I need more video. The finger is up in the first corner. If that was the first time you saw him on track, that seems a little uncalled for as he did leave you a lane on the inside. I can understand the sentiment that he was being aggressive because of how quickly the door appeared to close, but on that corner it never actually did. Watching the subie's driving style in the rest of the vid, he continued to have a very aggressive turn in on about every corner. This makes me think that he wasn't darting over to cut you off as much as doing his normal turn in and leaving a lane open. Either way, that happens in Lemons.

That said, the subie had no business nosing into you on the hill. If I had to guess, it looks like he expected you to carry more corner speed and tried to tuck in under you. This is stupid because he doesn't know what you will react to when you crest that hill. That feels more like poor judgement than over driving the car to me. More specifically, it seems like not allowing for the variability of Lemons as much as one should.

Owner of the Knights Templar Neon
A&D of middling proportions