Topic: Let paranoia begin! EPA regulating sale of Off Road Use Only tuners

I read it because it mentioned "Harley" and "defeat device" in a clickbait headline. But what it seems to reveal parallels the whole "Lemons Law" debate.

by: Danielle Muoio
Harley-Davidson has settled a lawsuit with the US government that alleged the company violated federal air pollution laws, the motorcycle maker wrote in a statement Thursday.

The lawsuit alleged that the motorcycle maker's "Screamin’ Eagle" after-market engine tuners were emissions-control defeat devices. The suit alleged that Harley-Davidson sold more than 12,000 motorcycles with the defeat devices.

Harley-Davidson will pay a $12 million civil penalty and a separate $3 million on a project that replaces wood-burning stoves with cleaner burning ones to mitigate air pollution, according to an Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) statement. Harley-Davidson also has to stop selling and buy back the defeat devices that were on the motorcycles as part of the settlement.

"This settlement is not an admission of liability but instead represents a good faith compromise with the EPA on areas of law we interpret differently, particularly EPA's assertion that it is illegal for anyone to modify a certified vehicle even if it will be used solely for off-road/closed-course competition," said Ed Moreland, Harley-Davidson's Government Affairs Director, in a statement.

"For more than two decades, we have sold this product under an accepted regulatory approach that permitted the sale of competition-only parts. In our view, it is and was legal to use in race conditions in the U.S."

http://www.businessinsider.com/us-gover … ice-2016-8

Re: Let paranoia begin! EPA regulating sale of Off Road Use Only tuners

Did not think running a pre-'73 race car would work out to be an early adopter strategy.

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Re: Let paranoia begin! EPA regulating sale of Off Road Use Only tuners

I think this is quite a different case than the Lemons Law.  This is a dealer selling new bikes with this device installed.

The portion you bolded says "certified vehicle".  I'm not sure what that exactly is, but I'm pretty certain a Lemons car isn't it.

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Re: Let paranoia begin! EPA regulating sale of Off Road Use Only tuners

the shaolin wrote:

The portion you bolded says "certified vehicle".  I'm not sure what that exactly is, but I'm pretty certain a Lemons car isn't it.

Actually, all our post 68ish cars would apply as "certified" as they are referring to EPA compliance certification.  By rule, Lemons cars need to be only those sold in the US and anything made after the EPA came into being would fall into that net.  I think they are making the distinction between aftermarket parts for road going vehicles that require EPA compliance and offroad vehicles that never fell under EPA rules (like my 80s CR500 that wanted to physically kill me much faster than its emissions could)

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Re: Let paranoia begin! EPA regulating sale of Off Road Use Only tuners

I just forked over $800 for a tuner.  It is tied to the VIN of the car and cannot be used for any but just the one.. 

Is this common?

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Re: Let paranoia begin! EPA regulating sale of Off Road Use Only tuners

NSF wrote:

I just forked over $800 for a tuner.  It is tied to the VIN of the car and cannot be used for any but just the one.. 

Is this common?

$800 will buy one hell of an aftermarket tuning setup, but when the cost is all bundled together in a financing package for a new bike it probably doesn't seem like such a bad deal. I don't know what the capabilities were like, but I'm guessing the Harley device also had some form of manufacturer documentation, which is something an aftermarket setup is going to be sorely lacking.

Re: Let paranoia begin! EPA regulating sale of Off Road Use Only tuners

SpaceFrank wrote:
NSF wrote:

I just forked over $800 for a tuner.  It is tied to the VIN of the car and cannot be used for any but just the one.. 

Is this common?

$800 will buy one hell of an aftermarket tuning setup, but when the cost is all bundled together in a financing package for a new bike it probably doesn't seem like such a bad deal. I don't know what the capabilities were like, but I'm guessing the Harley device also had some form of manufacturer documentation, which is something an aftermarket setup is going to be sorely lacking.

I don't know anything about bikes but from wht I've seen for cars, this is a pretty common practice for aftermarket "canned" tunes since they don't want one guy buying the handheld and then reflashing all his friends cars with the same tune (probably pretty mild).

SCT & Diablosport tuners are fairly common for Ford products. You plug the handheld tunerinto the car and reflash the EEPROM on the ECU. Once you do so, the handheld tuner becomes married to the cars onboard ECU (which reports the VIN/serial so the handheld knows when it's talking to different ECUs) and cannot be used with any other car's ECU unless you "unmarry" the handheld from the first car's ECU first.

You see this reflected in the used market as married tuners (which need a fee to be unlocked again by the mfg) go for a fraction of the unmarried tuner.
-g

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Re: Let paranoia begin! EPA regulating sale of Off Road Use Only tuners

Lets not forget the EPA just pushed through 1800 pages of regulation change.  They seem to be hitting the trucking industry hard in next few years.  http://finance.yahoo.com/news/epa-stren … NlYwNzcg--

Re: Let paranoia begin! EPA regulating sale of Off Road Use Only tuners

The trucking hit does not really start until 2020 and not in full swing until 2027 so not as big a deal as some might think.  The industry on its own was heading in this direction because unlike passenger vehicles, they live and die financially by the cost of fuel and maintenance (long and medium haul).

The ones that I see impacted the most (businesses) are the short haul/delivery companies.  They have benefited pretty much not at all by the various innovations in aerodynamics and cruising fuel economy yet they are going to be saddled with 10-15% more expensive trucks that invariably will have higher maintenance requirements.  For a while they will be able to collect the cast-off trucks from the long/medium haul guys but that only buys you about 5-7 years.

The light duty market (we call them HD and SD pickups) is where it will get interesting.  They will be required to state fuel economy on pickups/vans/etc with GVWR's in excess of 8000#'s.  Then they will have fuel economy fleet standards based on GVWR and GCWR.  Again, pretty sure the manufacturers saw this one one coming.

10

Re: Let paranoia begin! EPA regulating sale of Off Road Use Only tuners

DPF's will kill your engine if a $50 sensor fails to detect it has poor flow.   I removed mine and tuned it out.

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Re: Let paranoia begin! EPA regulating sale of Off Road Use Only tuners

Approx 30-40% of all commercial trucks break downs I deal with are related in some way to the stupid post-07 emissions crap.  S/F....Ken M

Re: Let paranoia begin! EPA regulating sale of Off Road Use Only tuners

echosixmike wrote:

Approx 30-40% of all commercial trucks break downs I deal with are related in some way to the stupid post-07 emissions crap.  S/F....Ken M

Not surprising.  I would be 90% of the check engine lights in passenger cars are from emissions issues.  The thing is, it ain't going to get simpler we just have to hope someone figures out how to keep complex reliable...because that normally works out just great.

Re: Let paranoia begin! EPA regulating sale of Off Road Use Only tuners

Thing is, the CEL on your car doesn't derate it to 5mph forcing a $500+ tow.  If the car emissions bullshit was the same as the commercial truck emissions bullshit(or if commercial truck drivers weren't beaten down and demoralized worse than Soviet kulaks), there'd be politicians hanging from streetlamps.  S/F....Ken M