Topic: Wheel/Tire Question

Right now we've got 17lbs steel wheels, is it worth $300 to go to wheels that only weigh 14.5lbs? How much time will that save us at Gingerman where our best laps are in the 2:04 range? As for tires we ran the Dunlop Direzza DZ102. How much time would the Dunlop Direzza Star Spec save us? Thanks

Re: Wheel/Tire Question

Finish wrote:

Right now we've got 17lbs steel wheels, is it worth $300 to go to wheels that only weigh 14.5lbs? How much time will that save us at Gingerman where our best laps are in the 2:04 range? As for tires we ran the Dunlop Direzza DZ102. How much time would the Dunlop Direzza Star Spec save us? Thanks

What are you driving?

The weight of the wheels can help but by itself, not worth upgrading for that reason.  Greater airflow and heat transfer for the brakes may be good reasons.

I have not run the DZ102 but we did run the DZ101 when it was around.  Best upgrade we ever made was to the 200 TW tires.  We are even planning on going performance rubber on the Plymouth you were passing all weekend when we make the suspension modifications.  I cannot put a number on how much faster your lap times will be.

Keep in mind, you need fast pit times and better organization and longer stints before you need better wheels (unless you are having brake overheating issues).  Fix the free stuff, get the good tires, then start upgrading.

Re: Wheel/Tire Question

good question.

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Re: Wheel/Tire Question

Lighter wheels are a huge advantage, you will notice the difference for sure.
Star Spec or Falken Azenis will also improve your lap times significantly over DZ102s

We dropped 3-4 seconds going from 200 TW Primewells for our first two races to 200 TW Falken Azenis, we also drove better after our second race smile

Apocalyptic Racing - Occupy Pit Lane racing
Racing the "Toylet" Toyota Celica powered by Chevrolet Ecotec.
24x Loser with the Celica. 16x loser in other fine machines
Overall winner Gingerman 2019

Re: Wheel/Tire Question

Lighter wheels mean faster changes. You win Lemons in the Pits not on laptimes.

Seriously do the math. First and second were separated by 16 LAPS.

Shaving say 2 seconds off 388 laps will net you what? 776 seconds? that's roughly 13 Minutes.

if you made steady 2:02 min laps you only gain 6 laps. Still 10 short.

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Re: Wheel/Tire Question

Guildenstern wrote:

Lighter wheels mean faster changes. You win Lemons in the Pits not on laptimes.

Seriously do the math. First and second were separated by 16 LAPS.

Shaving say 2 seconds off 388 laps will net you what? 776 seconds? that's roughly 13 Minutes.

if you made steady 2:02 min laps you only gain 6 laps. Still 10 short.

This, I was the one that finished 2nd, and we got our ass beat both on and off the track.  Biggest gains are made off the track tho.  I would say the rims might make some advantages but the tires will do more.

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7 (edited by TeamLemon-aid 2016-10-12 04:11 PM)

Re: Wheel/Tire Question

In my opinion, races are won in Lemons by (in no particular order):

1) Having a car that is capable of a fastest lap within 5 secs of the overall fastest lap

2) Having an average lap within 5 seconds of your fastest lap (good in traffic)

3) Having stint times near 3 hours

4) Having 1 or less black flags

5) Having pit stops that are less than 150 seconds (not counting paddock drive time and out lap)

6) No mechanical issues

(time estimates based on a 2 mile track)

If you look at the list, only #1 and #3 usually require car changes.   The rest are based on driver organization, driver talent and luck.

Of all these, luck may be the most important.  But as some say, luck is where preparation meets opportunity.

Teams that are capable of winning overall have paid their dues through multiple previous failures and gradual optimization of the car and team.

Cheapest way to improve is pick the brains of successful or more experienced teams. That's what we have done.  Listen to and observe those who have success and try to replicate it.

Good luck!!!

Skip the wheels unless you feel you have really optimized the free stuff, but get decent rubber. It doesn't cost much more.

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.

8 (edited by Brett85p 2016-10-12 04:32 PM)

Re: Wheel/Tire Question

Lemon-Aid know how to win these things for sure so take note of all their points,

We found on Saturday that hyper mileing is all for nothing when you botch the pit stop. Ours was almost twice as long as Lemon-Aid, TaTas etc so the advantage we had built up was lost.

Also backing off a touch and running 80-90% will help with avoiding the black flags if that has been an issue.

I do stand by the wheels comment if not now definitely plan to do this later. Unsprung weight is the enemy of race cars, and lighter wheels are the cheapest way to reduce this to a point where super light wheels get crazy expensive.

Apocalyptic Racing - Occupy Pit Lane racing
Racing the "Toylet" Toyota Celica powered by Chevrolet Ecotec.
24x Loser with the Celica. 16x loser in other fine machines
Overall winner Gingerman 2019

Re: Wheel/Tire Question

Anything that keeps you out there turning laps is good. A set of tires that are in the correct weight range for your car and are sticky is a good idea. They will help you shave seconds off each lap and also last longer than a street tire like a DZ102. Also, either heat cycle your tires or have them heat cycled. This will help them last longer so you don't have to do a tire change while the race is on.

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Re: Wheel/Tire Question

Thanks everyone, what's the best way to heat cycle tires?

Re: Wheel/Tire Question

Finish wrote:

Thanks everyone, what's the best way to heat cycle tires?

You can buy from tire rack heat cycled or if you practice or are street legal run them up to temperature. Then let cool before racing on them. New brake pads and rotors need similar heat cycling for maximum life. I usually put 5 laps on new tires/brakes in the first practice session then let them cool before going out again.

Apocalyptic Racing - Occupy Pit Lane racing
Racing the "Toylet" Toyota Celica powered by Chevrolet Ecotec.
24x Loser with the Celica. 16x loser in other fine machines
Overall winner Gingerman 2019

Re: Wheel/Tire Question

How long you let them cool down?

Re: Wheel/Tire Question

At least half an hour until they get to ambient temperature

Apocalyptic Racing - Occupy Pit Lane racing
Racing the "Toylet" Toyota Celica powered by Chevrolet Ecotec.
24x Loser with the Celica. 16x loser in other fine machines
Overall winner Gingerman 2019

Re: Wheel/Tire Question

I'd rather spend the $300 on better tires than to save 2.5# per wheel.