Topic: Disposables (Tires & Brakes)

This is going to be our first race and Id like to hear from the community a rough estimate on how many sets of brakes and tires would be an adequate amount, also is it recommended to upgrade the brakes or do people run these as stock as possible? I ask because I need to submit a budget to my work center to try and get sponsorship, and if I'm completely honest endurance racing junk cars is basically Spanish to me.

Re: Disposables (Tires & Brakes)

Typically one set of tires will last a race (but have a spare or two mounted in case of a flat).

Brakes is totally car dependant.  We go through two sets in a weekend in one car, but our other car a set of brakes will last 3-4 races.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

3 (edited by st_rage 2017-02-16 07:56 AM)

Re: Disposables (Tires & Brakes)

Tires: we bring 8 tires to a race for our FWD Civic/CRV/Cessna.  4 are new, and 4 are used.  The new ones go on the front and the used ones go on the rear.  We swap both as needed.  The best 4 tires left at the end get to be the rears for the next race.  As a new team you may not have figured out your pattern of which tires take the most beating, but I would bring at least 2 spares in addition to the 4 on the car. 

Brakes: if you are using autozone pads you may not get more than a few hours out of a set of pads.  Don't do that.  If you are running some kind of racing pad you will likely get several races out of a set of pads.  We run Hawk HP+ pads and get 3-5 races out of them.  I always bring an extra set and rotors.

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http://www.perpetualdownforce.com/

Re: Disposables (Tires & Brakes)

It really depends on the car and what you buy.

Better stuff costs more but tends to last longer, so buying a good set of tires you are more likely to have them last a weekend or longer than the cheaper tires since they tend to slide around and start chunking apart.  But what car you have also make a difference.  Are your brakes barely good enough for the street or were they actually something built for a bigger car they stuck on your car.  Just because they marketed your car as a sporty car doesn't mean they did this.  My cutlass ciera they tossed on brakes from cars that were well over 1000 lb's heavier, why because they had them so it was cheaper to do it than make a new package.

Racing 4 Nickels - 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
2011 SHOWROOM-SCHLOCK SHOOTOUT  IOE Winner
2012 The Chubba Cheddar Enduro Class C winner
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Re: Disposables (Tires & Brakes)

Thanks for the advice and quick response, we're trying to get a team going to make the deadline for Road Atlanta this year, if anyone wants to humor me and give me a roughly rough estimate of what it costs to start from scratch that'd also be cool, we are mechanics so well do our own work, im putting this budget together and without gas, tires, and breaks I came out to a super vague 10 grand to make the car safe and clothe our boys, id like to know if im in the ball park, trying too hard, or way under.

Re: Disposables (Tires & Brakes)

10 grand is more that what we had in out budget but we did not include the safety gear for the drivers (we will be renting the suits for our first race) but included tires and brakes.  We came up with something around 6k-ish and are hoping to stay close to that, if we can get the car up and running.  Good luck on your first one.  The biggest advice that we have been given is don't worry about winning, worry about making the car last to finish.

Skip "Mongo" Lentz
Team DadBod

Re: Disposables (Tires & Brakes)

That probably is, the build is normally considered 3-6k, If each person has their own suits and share hans, you are probably looking at another 3k.  Then a spare set of wheels and tires and and all the other odds and ends.  Once you get a car it becomes easier to estimate things like tires and gas and brake costs.

Racing 4 Nickels - 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
2011 SHOWROOM-SCHLOCK SHOOTOUT  IOE Winner
2012 The Chubba Cheddar Enduro Class C winner
Facebook Page

Re: Disposables (Tires & Brakes)

The build (car, cage, seat, belts, rims, and other capital/multiple race parts) usually runs $3-5k.  Our race costs, which are consumables - tires, brakes, rotors, race gas, towing, oil, entry fee, etc. is typically around $3k for 4 drivers. 

Our drivers are on their own for their safety gear.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: Disposables (Tires & Brakes)

yup, 3-5k for the car is a good estimate.  1200 in entry fees (roughly) and 600-? for each driver's safety gear.

Silent But Deadly Racing- Chief cook and bottle washer, Former Flyin Turd Race Team Captain 
Ricky Bobby's Laughing Clown Malt Liquor Thunderbird Turbo Coupe, Datsun 510, 87 Mustang (The Race Team Formerly Known as Prince), 72 Pinto Squire waggy, Parnelli Jones 67 Galaxie
Besmirching race tracks in the Eastern US since 2001

10

Re: Disposables (Tires & Brakes)

The biggest cost is normally the cage, so I know you said your mechanics, but are you also fabricators.  Cage is also the biggest thing that will keep a new team from actually making it on the track at a race, so you need to be realistic about what you can and can't do and plan to spend accordingly.  Depending on your skills you might pay someone to do it all, pay for a pre bent kit, or just a bunch of tubing and do it all yourself.  But if you screw it up they will make you rip it out and rebuild the whole thing before you can go out on track.

Racing 4 Nickels - 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
2011 SHOWROOM-SCHLOCK SHOOTOUT  IOE Winner
2012 The Chubba Cheddar Enduro Class C winner
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11 (edited by blenny 2017-02-16 02:24 PM)

Re: Disposables (Tires & Brakes)

We probably had $5000, into the car before the first race,
I kept a detailed budget for inspection, then learned they really didn't care,  just got assigned a class and las based on the car, team, and judges gut feeling.

$750 for the car
$2000 for safety and brakes
$1200 for things like bushings, radiator, go fast parts
$800 for tires and wheels
Sold $1000 worth of stuff off the car

We had 4 guys and luckily we were all able to fit into 2 sets of gear.  Ran pump fuel and the 1st race was only 30 miles from home, so no major towing or hotels.

Probably $300 in parts at the first race

So 10000 for the first race is not out of line,  keep in mind our car has no electronic controls or sensors to go bad and replace,  points and carb easy to work on easy to diagnose.

We also ordered a pre made cage which worked well, but we had a 30 year commercial welder on our team.

We get 2 races out of a set of tires and 3 out of brakes,  but we are in an underpowered, over braked, light car.

Re: Disposables (Tires & Brakes)

My fabricating skills consist of using a hammer to help make things flush lol. We're working with a guy that has a buddy that owes him a favor and might make the cage for cost of metal and a sixer, if that falls through were gonna have to take it to a shop because my welding is up to code and my welding buddies live in Chicago. I guess my last question is about spare parts. What is the most common parts one should bring, how does it work towards the value of the car (if I replace a part during the race will there be a penalty)? and also, we got a guy working at auctions if we buy a car for $50 that is clearly worth 1-2K will they let it slide or give us penalty laps?

BTW again, thanks a lot guys for all the advice I don't think I've ever been part of a competitive community that helps their opponents potentially beat them. I have a feeling this will be an annual occurrence for me.

Re: Disposables (Tires & Brakes)

st_rage wrote:

Tires: we bring 8 tires to a race for our FWD Civic/CRV/Cessna.  4 are new, and 4 are used.  The new ones go on the front and the used ones go on the rear.  We swap both as needed.  The best 4 tires left at the end get to be the rears for the next race.

The above is exactly what my team does as well.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
#411
'93 Acura Integra

Re: Disposables (Tires & Brakes)

skalskia wrote:

We're working with a guy that has a buddy that owes him a favor and might make the cage for cost of metal and a sixer, if that falls through were gonna have to take it to a shop because my welding is up to code and my welding buddies live in Chicago.

You are going to owe that guy more than a sixer.  I do cages and it's a two man job (one fitter and one welder) and takes about 8-10 hours.  You also need a bender that isn't going to crimp the tubing. 


I guess my last question is about spare parts. What is the most common parts one should bring, how does it work towards the value of the car (if I replace a part during the race will there be a penalty)? and also, we got a guy working at auctions if we buy a car for $50 that is clearly worth 1-2K will they let it slide or give us penalty laps?

Like for like spares replaced during the race don't count. 

The $50 car isn't going to get sweated if you have good documentation especially if it's something unusual.  A $50 RX7 or E36 is going to get looked over.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: Disposables (Tires & Brakes)

Whenever I hear the word "sponsor" from anyone regarding anything, I just have to shake my head. Reminds me of being a kid and hearing my friends flipping through BMX magazines and who practically just got off training wheels but claiming that so-and-so is going to sponsor them.

Then again, there are very generous people and businesses in the world who may not bat an eye at handing over $10K for people to do a $500 car race.

Another warning flag is that you are possibly going to rely on a buddy of a friend, or a friend of a buddy. I can tell you that building a team and a car together can sincerely test friendships. For amusement's sake, let's say you have a super-hot sister of legal age. And Let's say your buddy, your friend, your friend's buddy (or whoever it is that is a prospective team-contributer) get's super drunk and your super-hot sister starts coming on to your friend like rust on a NewEngland car's undercarriage. If you can trust your friend (et al) in his drunken state to not try to hop on sis, then you can rest assured that they will be a dependable teammate who will be around for the green flag come SUNDAY. If you have any doubts that your prospective teammate might wonder if he could get away with a quickie and that nobody would have to know or would never find out, magnify that doubt by twenty that this prospective teammate would be an asset to the team..

To bring this discussion back to practical: Consider buying a car that some team is done with / tired of. If RA is your target, talk to NSF Racing in FL: They always have more cars than able-bodied drivers and frequently sell "done" cars at a loss. You can spend $3500 or less for a read-to-go car that includes spares. I know a Hyundai just sold for $1500 that was more-or-less turn key, with all safety equipment and spare engine, trans and other backup stuff.

Also, for race gear, consider a rental outfit for the first event until people can afford to buy their own stuff. racesuitrental.com is one such place.

You could be in for the weekend for near $5K going that route.

Re: Disposables (Tires & Brakes)

Depending on how long your car has been sitting, you may find the fuel tank is full of all sorts of nasty gunk.   In that case, you will want to have a large supply of spare fuel filters.   For our first several outings we went through at least three filters each race.

"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!"
IOE winner in the Super Snipe -- Buttonwillow 2012
IOE winner in Super Snipe v2.0 -- Buttonwillow 2016
"Every Super Snipe in LeMons has won an IOE!"

Re: Disposables (Tires & Brakes)

CowDriver wrote:

Depending on how long your car has been sitting, you may find the fuel tank is full of all sorts of nasty gunk.   In that case, you will want to have a large supply of spare fuel filters.   For our first several outings we went through at least three filters each race.

Or clean your tank, first.
Besides, welding in a cage with the tank in place can be a little dangerous.

Capt. Delinquent Racing
TRUMPACO XR4Ti (We've arrived!! Now if I could make it go faster than 65 mph.)
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Re: Disposables (Tires & Brakes)

Cleaning the tank may or may not work.   In my case, I had it chemically cleaned by the same shop that soldered up the pinholes.   It still had what I call "Brown Saran Wrap" that kept clogging the filter.

I then removed the tank (again) from the car and repeatedly flushed it until no more BSW came out.   It wasn't enough, as BSW kept clogging the filter.

It was only after three races (and many filters) that the problem went away.

"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!"
IOE winner in the Super Snipe -- Buttonwillow 2012
IOE winner in Super Snipe v2.0 -- Buttonwillow 2016
"Every Super Snipe in LeMons has won an IOE!"