Topic: PROPANE powered Audi 200 Avant $600 Aurora IL

This is actually one of my shitboxes.

It's a 1990 Audi 200 Avant (wagon) that has been converted to run on propane.

Runs and drives.

New tires, suspension work, alignment.

Has Bilsteins all around.

Still has a gas tank if you want to go back to gasoline.

Will take $500 for it.

"THE WONDERMENT CONSORTIUM"
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Re: PROPANE powered Audi 200 Avant $600 Aurora IL

car was featured on Jalopnik's NPOCP http://jalopnik.com/is-this-jalop-s-pro … 1601164062

I've owned it for about a year.

"THE WONDERMENT CONSORTIUM"
Nothing's for certain, it could always go wrong. Come in when it's raining, go on out when it's gone.

Re: PROPANE powered Audi 200 Avant $600 Aurora IL

derekste wrote:

Still has a gas tank if you want to go back to gasoline.

Anyone who wants to race it will have to do so. Rule 3.H.8 specifies "no propane or other compressed fuels."

1982 MG Metro 1300: IOE 2015 Pacific Northworst GP, Longest Distance 2010 Cd'L Box Wine Country Classic
1980 KV Mini 1: Worst of Show and Fright Pig Supremo 2009 Concours d'LeMons
1978 H Special: Second-Round Elimination 2010 LeMons Pinewood Derby at Sears Pointless
1967 SAAB 96: IOE 2012 Pacific Northworst GP

Re: PROPANE powered Audi 200 Avant $600 Aurora IL

mharrell wrote:
derekste wrote:

Still has a gas tank if you want to go back to gasoline.

Anyone who wants to race it will have to do so. Rule 3.H.8 specifies "no propane or other compressed fuels."

You'd need a waiver, that's for sure.

I'm pretty sure I could outline a pretty convincing argument for allowing propane-- but the biggest issue you would face is how to refuel at the track.

"THE WONDERMENT CONSORTIUM"
Nothing's for certain, it could always go wrong. Come in when it's raining, go on out when it's gone.

5 (edited by mharrell 2017-03-15 01:52 PM)

Re: PROPANE powered Audi 200 Avant $600 Aurora IL

derekste wrote:

I'm pretty sure I could outline a pretty convincing argument for allowing propane...

Back in 2014, before "no propane..." was explicitly added to the rules, John went on record with this:

Evil Genius wrote:

We (This is royal we, as in the LeMons staff) have pretty well decided to say no to any kind of large pressure vessel in a race car.

and even earlier, in 2010:

Evil Genius wrote:

...the only high pressure container I will allow in a race car will contain fire suppressant, not accelerant.

These responses were in reference to steam and nitrous, respectively, but I think it would be an uphill battle to get HQ to sign off on propane, or CNG, or an MDI FlowAIR compressed air car, or the like.

Of course, if someone instead wants to buy it for the LeMons rally, then the sky's the limit. My guess is that Steve would throw all kinds of bonus points at it. I know I would.

1982 MG Metro 1300: IOE 2015 Pacific Northworst GP, Longest Distance 2010 Cd'L Box Wine Country Classic
1980 KV Mini 1: Worst of Show and Fright Pig Supremo 2009 Concours d'LeMons
1978 H Special: Second-Round Elimination 2010 LeMons Pinewood Derby at Sears Pointless
1967 SAAB 96: IOE 2012 Pacific Northworst GP

Re: PROPANE powered Audi 200 Avant $600 Aurora IL

I would imagine the main obstacle to a waiver is that the track safety crew is not equipped to fight propane fires.  Also, flammable gas under pressure.  I sorta brought part of that rule on when I was considering turboing the Imp and running it on methanol.  Then I realized track crews wouldn't have sufficient water to fight a methanol fire and told Jay he probably out to outlaw the type of stuff a typical track isn't equipped to put out.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita" 
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)
1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless)
1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites) (Sold -> Houston.  Gone and forgotten)

Re: PROPANE powered Audi 200 Avant $600 Aurora IL

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/10/fe/4d/10fe4d78052db74c58420423aa75b085.jpg

"THE WONDERMENT CONSORTIUM"
Nothing's for certain, it could always go wrong. Come in when it's raining, go on out when it's gone.

Re: PROPANE powered Audi 200 Avant $600 Aurora IL

What's involved with un-propaning this car and enabling the gasoline CIS-E system?

Jim C.
If God meant for us to race, we'd all have baggy Nomex skin.
08TMS.09NL.10GM, SP. NL.11SP, NL.12SP, VIR, NL.13GM, NJ.14NJ, VIR, WGI.15AB,16GM...

Re: PROPANE powered Audi 200 Avant $600 Aurora IL

just carb it smile

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This car....Is said to have a will of it's Own. Twisting its own body in rage...It accelerates on.
1978 Opel/Buick Isuzu - 3 races, IOE, Incredible Feats in Badge Engineering
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10 (edited by jfbeam 2017-03-20 05:21 PM)

Re: PROPANE powered Audi 200 Avant $600 Aurora IL

cheseroo wrote:

I would imagine the main obstacle to a waiver is that the track safety crew is not equipped to fight propane fires.

One does not "fight" a propane (or battery) fire. One simply manages the beast to keep everything else from joining it. If it's a road legal, production model, then it's had NCAP/NTSB/etc. crash testing to ensure the car, and the occupants, aren't disintegrated in a crash. That said, propane tanks are pretty darn tough. Would it survive a 100mph crash into a concrete wall?

Also, having seen the effects of gasoline burning one of our buildings down, gasoline fires can be impossible to fight if it isn't dealt with immediately. (or you happen to have 10,000gal of foam.)

(Note: our RV -- the Duff Mobile Oppression Palace -- has an 80gal propane tank under it.)

CarolinaHondas.com / Duff Beer Civic #128
2014 Sebring - Class B (#1 of 7)
2016 Barber - Class B Win!

Re: PROPANE powered Audi 200 Avant $600 Aurora IL

jfbeam wrote:
cheseroo wrote:

I would imagine the main obstacle to a waiver is that the track safety crew is not equipped to fight propane fires.

One does not "fight" a propane (or battery) fire. One simply manages the beast to keep everything else from joining it. If it's a road legal, production model, then it's had NCAP/NTSB/etc. crash testing to ensure the car, and the occupants, aren't disintegrated in a crash. That said, propane tanks are pretty darn tough. Would it survive a 100mph crash into a concrete wall?

Also, having seen the effects of gasoline burning one of our buildings down, gasoline fires can be impossible to fight if it isn't dealt with immediately. (or you happen to have 10,000gal of foam.)

(Note: our RV -- the Duff Mobile Oppression Palace -- has an 80gal propane tank under it.)

thank you for this. I'll also add:
-propane burns, and does not vaporize and explode like gasoline does (propane is hazmat cat 2, gasoline hazmat cat 3)
-propane cannot be spilled onto your clothing: it sinks to the ground and dissipates
-propane has a higher required energies for ignition and autoignition

"THE WONDERMENT CONSORTIUM"
Nothing's for certain, it could always go wrong. Come in when it's raining, go on out when it's gone.

Re: PROPANE powered Audi 200 Avant $600 Aurora IL

FJ40Jim wrote:

What's involved with un-propaning this car and enabling the gasoline CIS-E system?

shit, didn't see this- my bad.

car would need fuel lines, air box/fuel distributor, and injector lines (injectors are still there)

IMO you'd be better off putting a megasquirt on it, even if it was just to do the fueling-- unless you already have the CIS parts.

the stock ECU is chipped and supports 20ish pounds of boost (car runs at 15psi currently)

"THE WONDERMENT CONSORTIUM"
Nothing's for certain, it could always go wrong. Come in when it's raining, go on out when it's gone.

Re: PROPANE powered Audi 200 Avant $600 Aurora IL

kakarot1232001 wrote:

just carb it smile

it already is, just with a propane carb smile

"THE WONDERMENT CONSORTIUM"
Nothing's for certain, it could always go wrong. Come in when it's raining, go on out when it's gone.