Topic: How to get into a Jag shop???

My X-Type has some kind of electrical issue that you just get a click, no turnover or fuel.  After lots of research and testing we believe it is likely either the key no longer being read or the instrument cluster is bad.  My issue is that both of these fixes require a trip to the dealer to program the parts to the computer. 

So I took the car to my local Jag dealer and he called me this morning by 8:10 saying he'd look at it.  He called back by 10 saying he isn't going to touch it.  They were a factory dealer and do not deal with this type of thing.  No charge, just get it off his lot. 

So I need to get it into a dealer.  Looking for some idea of how to get our crap cars into a fancy pants dealer to simply diagnose the car?  He was going to charge double initially and I said okay.  Then he backed off and said no.

Ideas?

Team Glue Sticks
00 Firebird, 02 X-Type, NX200, 00 Mazda 626 (Sold)
2016 NJMP Heroic Fix, 2017 NJMP Near Heroic Fix except we can't drive

Re: How to get into a Jag shop???

sadly we don't have ford mondeo shops in the USA  since it's definately more mondeo than it is jag.

3 (edited by fleming95 2017-03-02 11:46 AM)

Re: How to get into a Jag shop???

'Real' way to fix:

1.  Get copy of factory manuals and wiring diagrams, plus scan tool + factory data subscripton
2.  Begin diagnosis
3.  Discover that it is a faulty submodule
4.  Buy spare off of eBay, install.
5.  Discover that, surprise, surprise, not only is the spare bad but it's another problem as well.
6.  Repeat steps 3-5 until you get to step 7. . .

7. Swap in a 'real' Jaguar straight-six and call it good!

<edit>

But if you like self-flagellation try going through these 31 pages of diagnostics:

http://www.jagrepair.com/images/TSB/TSB … System.pdf

Re: How to get into a Jag shop???

Fleming, thank you.  We have printed and trouble shooted through 286 pages of the electrical section of the shop manual as well as the 31 pages with your link.  We did not get a factory data subscription but did scan it.  In those tests it came up that the instrument cluster was bad, but from what I have read, only Jag can program the IC to the ECM.  We are going to give it another go next weekend, but in the meantime we did find a non-factory shop willing to check it out as backup.

Team Glue Sticks
00 Firebird, 02 X-Type, NX200, 00 Mazda 626 (Sold)
2016 NJMP Heroic Fix, 2017 NJMP Near Heroic Fix except we can't drive

Re: How to get into a Jag shop???

Long term:  Mini squirt, micro squirt, or Russ-EFI

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Re: How to get into a Jag shop???

Sir Thomas Crapper wrote:

Long term:  Mini squirt, micro squirt, or Russ-EFI

Considering this but what I lack is confidence or experience.  I know it requires a lot of research and trial and error, but I am more worried about making the issue worse than it is.  How challenging is it?

Team Glue Sticks
00 Firebird, 02 X-Type, NX200, 00 Mazda 626 (Sold)
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Re: How to get into a Jag shop???

fleming95 wrote:

'Real' way to fix:

7. Swap in a 'real' Jaguar straight-six and call it good!

No truer words have been spoken.

-Jagvair

Judge's Choice - 2015 PNW - Most Heroic Fix - 2014 PNW 
Jagvair - fast and squishy - 1960 Corvair w/ 1993 Jaguar XJ6 moving bits
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8 (edited by mike944 2017-03-07 01:27 PM)

Re: How to get into a Jag shop???

wait, so you bought a jag, and DON'T know how to do your own electrical work?

i know exactly what your electrical problem is: "it's a jaguar"

Doesn't Webster's dictionary define "Jaguar" as:  1. a large cat (Panthera onca) chiefly of Central and South America  2. A continuous undiagnosable electrical problem.

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Re: How to get into a Jag shop???

mike944 wrote:

wait, so you bought a jag, and DON'T know how to do your own electrical work?

i know exactly what your electrical problem is: "it's a jaguar"

Yes, it was a very bad decision.  We had another car lined up that we bought off of another team and Jay said it would not be welcomed in Lemons.  A guy on our team had this X-Type sitting around that ran so we decided to make a go of it.  It actually ran fairly well during it's premier, but I guess decided it was time for retirement immediately after. 

It is beyond electrical work with this car.  Last electrical issue we had was the little passenger side airbag light had a short and kept blowing the 5 amp fuse that went with it.  This is enough to prevent the car from starting.  Unplug the dash, car won't start.  Essentially anything that isn't right prevents it from starting.  I think Jag had the brainchild that they'll produce a cheaper car but make their profit up in the shop. 

I was really hoping the Ford roots would have been stronger on the electrical end of it.

Team Glue Sticks
00 Firebird, 02 X-Type, NX200, 00 Mazda 626 (Sold)
2016 NJMP Heroic Fix, 2017 NJMP Near Heroic Fix except we can't drive

Re: How to get into a Jag shop???

I think the Ford stuff is worse, in that era... Anyone who has dealt with that "inertia switch" junk in an Escort knows of what I speak.

I work next to an indie Jag specialist and one of my fellow techs was a Jag dealer guy from 2005-2011. We could figure it out. Unfortunately, shipping to AZ is probably a bit excessive. I'm sure there is "the guy" who does Jags as a specialty somewhere local. I'd quit wasting time begging that dealer to take your money, and find that guy.

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Re: How to get into a Jag shop???

^^ this ^^

Find your local independent Jag shop and go there. You'll probably just have to start calling around.

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Re: How to get into a Jag shop???

There have to be Jag forums, right? That's where I would start looking, both for specific DIY advice and for the nearest location of "that guy."

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Re: How to get into a Jag shop???

SpaceFrank wrote:

There have to be Jag forums, right? That's where I would start looking, both for specific DIY advice and for the nearest location of "that guy."

I've been on them and the first thing they all ask is "what codes?".  There is an outfit that makes a clone of the Jaguar IDS/SDD software and I've suggested he try to get a hold of it or failing that have someone read them out for him.  These are the proprietary Jaguar codes, not the regular OBD2 codes.

Interesting thing about all these OBD2 devices that are available now.  Apparently the people that produced the ELM327 controller to translate OBD2 dropped a clanger and did not enable copy protection so people could buy their own chips and load the code into it.  That's why a bunch of cheap OBD2 readers showed up in the marketplace.  Whoopsie.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELM327

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1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)
1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless)
1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites) (Sold -> Houston.  Gone and forgotten)

Re: How to get into a Jag shop???

aventari wrote:

Find your local independent Jag shop and go there. You'll probably just have to start calling around.

He won't return my calls.

-Jagvair

Judge's Choice - 2015 PNW - Most Heroic Fix - 2014 PNW 
Jagvair - fast and squishy - 1960 Corvair w/ 1993 Jaguar XJ6 moving bits
Transcontinental Drifters Facebook Page
Don't step on your dick.

Re: How to get into a Jag shop???

Thanks for all of the advice.  I started spreading the word an we ended up finding a guy who works out of a small shop and only on Jags.  He claims to even have all of the equipment to sync the PATS systems to the key.  Now, I haven't taken it in yet because I live in Jersey and we're about to get 12"+ of snow and since there could still be some water in there we're afraid to take it out of the heated garage for too long until we get balmy February weather back again. 

I'm active on the Jag forum and it was a huge help.  They provided ideas, shop manuals, etc to test everything I have equipment for. It's the stuff that Jag holds a monopoly on that gets you. 

Cheseroo- I think I was talking to you on the Lounge about this.  The price is right for the software as it seems as though it's needed for a lot of repairs and diagnosis.  Something I'm looking into.  The shop we're taking it too feels fairly sure he can diagnose and repair within an hour shop time so $100 seems worth the expense.

Team Glue Sticks
00 Firebird, 02 X-Type, NX200, 00 Mazda 626 (Sold)
2016 NJMP Heroic Fix, 2017 NJMP Near Heroic Fix except we can't drive

Re: How to get into a Jag shop???

meyers0150

Did you ever here from the California team "misfits" with the x-type that got wrecked at Sears Point last month?

Video here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqcmkG6 … &t=29s

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Re: How to get into a Jag shop???

bikejeff wrote:

meyers0150

Did you ever here from the California team "misfits" with the x-type that got wrecked at Sears Point last month?

Video here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqcmkG6 … &t=29s

No, I have been wanting to get in touch with them but have been unable to track them down.  Sad what happened to their car.  I spoke to the judges about it this weekend.

Team Glue Sticks
00 Firebird, 02 X-Type, NX200, 00 Mazda 626 (Sold)
2016 NJMP Heroic Fix, 2017 NJMP Near Heroic Fix except we can't drive

Re: How to get into a Jag shop???

FWIW, I found my mongoose OBD2 cable and Jag SDD/IDS software if you want to go that route.  My $1 x-type (now closer to $600) should be running/driving later this week.  People want pretty good money for manual gearboxes and transfer cases for these things.  Found a transaxle locally at a JY that didn't have any details on it so they let it go cheapish and the pan and transfer case came from a DIY yard on a 40% off weekend.  Transfer cases are the same whether it's an auto or manual trans.  This is what it looks like when the transfer case explodes off the transaxle.
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii80/cheseroo/Lemons/JagTrans_zpsomiotarv.jpg

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1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)
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Re: How to get into a Jag shop???

WOW!!!!  That's a explosive case!  Ours is still an auto, but the transfer case and transmission seem to be holding up well.  Our issue this race was one driver complained about some brake squeal so a couple other guys took a look.  They only hand tightened the lug nut and two of the bolts ended up sheered off while also damaging the ball joint.  We rearranged some things and took it easy on the car for the rest of the day and it finished, but needs a little work to get back to race ready. 

I would love a 5 speed.  We now run 3 cars and some guys have preferred the auto, so we'll likely keep it that way until it blows up.

Team Glue Sticks
00 Firebird, 02 X-Type, NX200, 00 Mazda 626 (Sold)
2016 NJMP Heroic Fix, 2017 NJMP Near Heroic Fix except we can't drive

Re: How to get into a Jag shop???

Yeah, it's a shame about that trans because it was a fresh rebuild.  Manuals are not common but they are out there.  I spent a weekend pounding the aisles of the DIY yards looking for one.  LKQ website shows how many of whatever car they have but not the running gear type.  I think I went to 5 or 6 yards that had x-types, looked at 15 and only 1 was a manual.  Guess which one had only been there three days and was the only one where someone took the entire drivetrain?  The other 14 were untouched.  It's a fair bit of work to get out of there.  Transfer case has to come out and uses a special tool (sawed off 13mm), subframe and suspension have to come out.  Then the transaxle will come once you suspend the engine tilted at an angle.  Took about 16hrs to R&R by myself.  Once all that was done, something in the fly-by-wire throttle had gone sideways inside the ECM so it was shipped off to Illinois to repair.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita" 
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)
1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless)
1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites) (Sold -> Houston.  Gone and forgotten)

Re: How to get into a Jag shop???

Since I saw you all racing, I'll guess you fixed it. Next time it acts up just drop a SBC in it and call it a day.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: How to get into a Jag shop???

Mr.Yuck wrote:

Since I saw you all racing, I'll guess you fixed it. Next time it acts up just drop a SBC in it and call it a day.

We didn't have any extra lugs for our Jag so we just ran 4 of 5 on each tire and babied the car.  It was enough to keep getting laps, finish and not cause any more damage.  We'll likely take the Jag and one of the other two to Thompson with us.

Team Glue Sticks
00 Firebird, 02 X-Type, NX200, 00 Mazda 626 (Sold)
2016 NJMP Heroic Fix, 2017 NJMP Near Heroic Fix except we can't drive