The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Lemons Tech → How we updated an Autopower cage
Autopower cage in an MR2... We extended the plates, welded up the sleeves and added door, harness and roof bars. Cost was about 60-70% of the cost of a custom cage. It was also $150 more than I estimated and I ended up with a somewhat unhappy customer.. The floor under the bolt-in mounts was already torn and failing. In a roll over the cage would have punched through.
pics:
That looks pretty good! Any reason to not run larger plates that go "up" those sills?
Also, do you think their "cost" savings made it worth it, as compared to going all new? (Obviously, all new is the ideal solution)
Just curious, cause there is no mass produced bolt in cage for my car, but after all the work to update the bolt in cage, how would it compare to the full custom built cage. Are they pretty much the same or would the custom end up still being safer and worth the extra $$.
Are those welds 360? 8P
Just curious, cause there is no mass produced bolt in cage for my car, but after all the work to update the bolt in cage, how would it compare to the full custom built cage. Are they pretty much the same or would the custom end up still being safer and worth the extra $$.
Custom cage would be higher, further forward and mount to the stronger rocker panels/sills and would be stronger...
So yes, a custom cage would be safer, and worth it in my opinion.
-John
why would you mount the cage to the floor instead of the main structural elements running 2" beside where you're welding? the steel there is *MUCH* thicker and less likely to punch right through.
why would you mount the cage to the floor instead of the main structural elements running 2" beside where you're welding? the steel there is *MUCH* thicker and less likely to punch right through.
Umm... because this started as an Autopower *bolt-in* cage?
...and didn't he answer that a full-custom cage would mount to the sills?
read man, read...
Hey Evil - are those welds to the floor MIG or TIG?
mig
Going to the sills would have put the work right up to the cost of a custom cage.. So no point. Also, the cantilever(tubes landing 3-4" from the sill) would have made going up the sill somewhat worthless from a strength standpoint. Ideal situation would be a new cage, but the team is on a tight budget and I already spent too much of their money......
I'm not going to defend the Autopower cage, its a POS.. The point of this post was to show people with Autopower cages how to make them pass.. We did the work mostly to understand how, so I can better answer the hundreds of questions I get. I wouldn't do it again, I would pull out the AP and install a custom or turn the car away.
-John
John...I'm not unhappy!! Thank you for the work you and your team did. Nice Guys. I just ran out of money.. I drover from San Jose and needed gas money to get home.... Tean 10th scale Racers....
P.S. if you want to check out there work (LIVE), come to Oct 22-23 race....car #10...(Yellow car on the out side)
Phantom - I'm the guy that chatted w/you as you were puttin' it on the trailer - From where I stood you seemed somewhere between relieved it was done and stoked 'cause you had some good ideas!
Can't wait to see it in October - have fun with the build. Another Mr2 in your area is SnowBalls chance - I think he's in your area... Forum name of Bossnova ~ Maybe good for info.
...So John, gotta say he pro'lly wasn't so much pissed (Or I would have heard grumbling) as Sticker-shocked. Like me and my collection of *designer* roll cages...
I'm not going to defend the Autopower cage, its a POS..
So will bolt-ins be outlawed in the future? I would like to know.
Evil Genius wrote:I'm not going to defend the Autopower cage, its a POS..
So will bolt-ins be outlawed in the future? I would like to know.
Not likely, but this is what you have to do to make them legal in the future, probably next year.
For a team would it be easier to modify the bolt in or build custom.
coolhand454 wrote:Evil Genius wrote:I'm not going to defend the Autopower cage, its a POS..
So will bolt-ins be outlawed in the future? I would like to know.
Not likely, but this is what you have to do to make them legal in the future, probably next year.
Got it. One more thing, when we weld the new spreader plate to the floor can we still bolt everything else? I ask because if we change similar car future (I.E. i don't know.. say hit a wall doing 50MPH, car hit with a biblical plague, you know common Lemons stuff) we can save some money by transferring the cage to the new(ish) car. Or if we find IOE contender, we may just move on with a custom cage.
For a team would it be easier to modify the bolt in or build custom.
I think that both will be the about the same. We got prices for cages for our first car and VFC Engineering on the North Side of Chicago had a price close to the Autopower cage. If you use them, give them up to 3 months to get an appointment. They stay booked.
I got mine at Victory Lane on the south side. Didn't take anywhere close to 3 months, well once I got a hold of Ed. Last year he fell into a lot of side work which fortunately ended just after I got accepted.
But you never know if we had to start again cause something horrible happened to the car or we got smart and decided to start over with a better car its good to know what would be the best way to go about it.
Thanks for clarifying with pics John.
would there be a problem if a team extended a bar forward, welding to the firewall (Approx. door bar height) and installed a dash bar between those extended bars?
Thanks for clarifying with pics John.
would there be a problem if a team extended a bar forward, welding to the firewall (Approx. door bar height) and installed a dash bar between those extended bars?
Not if done well... The fabrication/welding needs to be top notch... Dash bars are a good idea.
-John
I asked Nick to sticky this so we could point people to it. Pics are worth many, many words, and time on the phone and texts and missed calls... Uh- you get the picture, I've been asked about this a lot...
-John
Thank you. We are actually in the process of updating a civic we have that has the Autopower bolt-in cage, so this thread has been our primary reference.
It will be easier to modify build custom for a team rather than single as it is time saving as well.
Whatever this guy is having, I want some.
jamesloe wrote:It will be easier to modify build custom for a team rather than single as it is time saving as well.
Whatever this guy is having, I want some.
I'll tell you what he is having - SPAM.
And now its SMOKED SPAM.
Evil, in your first pic, you extended the frame, by adding that sleeve.. Why did you do that ?
(we have the same cage in a car and need to get it Lemons legal).. which rule were you trying to satisfy
cheers
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