The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Lemons Tech → Drivers Seat
Alright, another question...this one about the drivers seat. The rules mention that the seatback has to go to the middle of the drivers helmet. Does this measurement include the headrest portion of a stock seat. I am not opposed to getting a new seat, but I need one that can slide. We have a height issue with our drivers (shortest 5"5" - Tallest 6"). I would like to keep the factory seat (slides and has a roller for the recline).
Miles
I can't answer your first question but I can say that there are ways to adapt an aftermarket seat to a slider. Our Corbeau race seat is attached to the stock sliders with side mount brackets (our drivers range from about 5'7" to 6'3" - I'm the ogre).
I've said it before and I'll say it again - a proper race seat is a GREAT investment, especially if you plan to race your car more than once. Having a seat that will hold you in greatly reduces body fatigue compared to using stock seats and having to keep yourself from sliding all over the place with your arms and legs.
Hi Miles -- Here's the issue with stock seats. The stock (base) slides are not meant for the kinds of speeds/impacts that may occur during competition. Yes, they pass NHTSA requirements, but in the SCCA, NASA and even Lemons, we've seen stock seats fail -- a lot. As such, during an impact, seats may become dislodged from the slides. If the seat breaks loose and settles (downward) between the slides/guide-rails, the seat-belts become useless... and you're going to get hurt... or worse. Same goes with the recliner mechanism. Best you can do (if you want to keep the stock seat) is to weld the recliner latch closed and pick the best, nominal seat position you can that fits your range of drivers and then weld the seat slides. That said, there are competition-rated seat slides and you should probably look into them.
Here's the way I look at it -- and this goes without any apology for the pontification that it is meant to apply: if you've got a $50 head, get a $50 helmet.
Rationale: if you've got a $50 body, use a $50 seat. Yes, this is Lemons and I've heard (time and time and time again) that Lemons isn't "real" racing. That's bullsh*t. Racing lawnmowers is "real" racing. However, the speed we're going in our little crap-cans is still 20% faster than my fully race-prepared SCCA F-Production Triumph Spitfire went in 1970 when I went through Driver's School. You've probably got $2,500-3,000 in your car (or you will have when you're done). Another $200 for a good seat with competition-rated slides isn't going to break the bank. But without it, you make break something else.
All the best -
John
Ok...so get a "Real" seat. Any suggestions on some that slide and/or adjust?
To answer your first question, the middle-of-the-helmet rule does include the headrest. Basically, you don't want your head snapping back in an impact--the more the seat will support your head, the better.
technically, a stock seat will pass tech if the highest point on the seat (i.e. the top of the head rest) is above the center of the tallest driver's helmet, and it is still securely fastened to the stock sliders and the stock mount points.
However, everything John said is true. PLUS, your ass sliding around in a stock seat = poor car controllability and very fatigued drivers
damn, Nick beat me to it!
What type of seats do you guys use? I just want one that can be fitted to sliders so we can move the seat forward and backward.
What type of seats do you guys use? I just want one that can be fitted to sliders so we can move the seat forward and backward.
Look for a used Corbeau... they are decent, and pretty cheap. I had 2 Forza's in my DSM for a bit, and the make custom sliders for your specific car... (assuming you arent driving some bizarre Citroen or something)
Look for a used Corbeau... they are decent, and pretty cheap. I had 2 Forza's in my DSM for a bit, and the make custom sliders for your specific car... (assuming you arent driving some bizarre Citroen or something)
2nded. I have raced in both a Forza (in the Saabs Gone Wild car) and an FX1 our car and both are comfortable and hold you in the car well.
There's been some question about seat back braces as well, what's the official party line on that?
Seat Backs should be braced. However, our seat currently is not. We have a Kirkey seat now but started with a plastic drag bucket.
We have always used sliders which makes a seat back support more complicated. I am going to try and fabricate an adjustable seat back support with an additional seat adjuster. The plan is to have a single release for both to make adjustments quick and easy.
The definition of "seat braces" is currently somewhat flexible--basically, you need to have some kind of support that will prevent your seat from tipping back in the event of a crash. We don't require this support to be permanently affixed to the seatback (in fact, be wary of rigging up some hokey angle-iron brace that will only serve to impale your back in a crash). In many cases, the harness bar of your roll cage will serve this purpose just fine--just make sure it's fairly close to the seat (six inches or so is ideal), and positioned high enough to prevent tipping (it should be already in a decent position to create the proper angle for your harness shoulder belts).
So what about an adjustable seat brace? We need to have the seat slide front to back by about a foot (to accommodate all our drivers). I could fab something that would not "impale" but would still move...I have seen some you can even buy from Sparco and other companies.
Miles
So what about an adjustable seat brace? We need to have the seat slide front to back by about a foot (to accommodate all our drivers). I could fab something that would not "impale" but would still move...I have seen some you can even buy from Sparco and other companies.
Miles
We got one that moves from I/O Port Racing and it passed tech fine. Having seen how ours works, it wouldn't be hard to fab one up but it was a last-minute addition before the Houston race:
http://www.ioportracing.com/Merchant2/m … ry_Code=IH
Yeah, that i/o port unit looks good--basically, if you're putting anything impale-y behind you, make sure it spreads the load where it meets the seat. You can see where the i/o port unit has a wide bracket on the seat end that evens the load.
I invested $800 in two SPARCO EVO2 seats. Yes, it was expensive, But they are damned comfortable, will totally support you, and are FIA rated and sturdy. I look at them as assets, not sunk costs. I have three Lemons cars these two seats will rotate through, and when the cars die, the seats come out and go with me.
We also used the IOPort adjustable seat brace. It works very well. we changed from the clamp to a pin system because we thought it would be faster for getting the seat adjusted during driver changes.
by the way, ioport was absolutely great to deal for for us as "noobs"
Tim
So do all seats need that brace? I am using an older Sparco fixed seat. It is very sturdy and we plan on mounting it without sliders. There shouldnt be any flex in the back I would think, will there?
This showed up at Reno--this seat/brace/belts setup made the tech guys smile. If you need an example to follow, this is it (and yes, that's the I/O Port adjustable brace): 
Winwar, you don't need to have a bolt-on brace, but you do have to have something that will prevent your seat from tipping backwards in an impact. The harness bar on your cage may or may not be sufficient.
What do you mean buy "tipping back" exactly. It is a fixed back seat that will be hard mounted to floor. Do you mean in case the mountings break?
I invested $800 in two SPARCO EVO2 seats. Yes, it was expensive, But they are damned comfortable, will totally support you, and are FIA rated and sturdy. I look at them as assets, not sunk costs. I have three Lemons cars these two seats will rotate through, and when the cars die, the seats come out and go with me.
How did you get TWO for $800? They are more than $800 EACH with the bracket (used?)! I need to know as I need one now....
PS, the Cobra Monaco S is cheap as race seats go (under $300) and fits big guys like me.. we have them in our Lemons and they work well.
Nick, thanks for posting that photo. I saw a lot of people failing tech last weekend for items that aren't in the rulebook, so I want to make sure we have our stuff in order.
The leftover "flap" of the harness needs to be facing towards the rear, correct?
And what distance is allowable between the seat and "seat brace?" Our cage has two bars that are within 6" of the rear of the seat. Will that suffice?
The leftover "flap" of the harness needs to be facing towards the rear, correct?
Hey, a question I can answer. Yes, with a 3-bar buckle and wrapping around tubing, the webbing goes through the buckle, under and around the bar, back through the buckle and then the tail loops back through the buckle (facing rear) one last time. From the top, you should see only 1 of the 3 bars of the buckle.
There's a good picture on p2 of the Schroth installation instructions:
http://www.hmsmotorsport.com/docs/Schro … cklist.pdf
I was looking for harness instructions online to answer my question but found none. Thanks! I honestly can't remember how my harness is routed, but I'll make sure it's right.
And for the benefit of teams that are using clip on style harnesses (to attach to eyebolts), the tech guys were enforcing the use of a piece of wire or cotter pin to hold the clip closed if there was a hole on the clip for that.
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