• Registered: 2009-08-28
  • Posts: 606

Re: Cars to Avoid!!

MurileeMartin wrote:

The one Subaru SVX we've seen has been very, very terrible. I bet everyone on that team is a much, much more experienced mechanic than he was before deciding to LeMon-ize that car.

Oye, just working on them in my shop made me shudder when I saw the Lemons version.

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  • From: WOOTville USA
  • Registered: 2009-05-06
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Re: Cars to Avoid!!

MurileeMartin wrote:

I'd say the Nissan Z/ZX is the all-time "good on paper, terrible in reality" Lemons car, followed by the Camaro.

How about "bad on paper, good in reality" cars? The Saturn SL and Ford Escort certainly qualify. We've seen two apiece Fiats and MGBs, and they've all finished the race.

I can't believe you grouped us in with them Fiat freaks...

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  • From: Land Of Subarus, Colorado
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Re: Cars to Avoid!!

"Sparky" Pete wrote:
MurileeMartin wrote:

I'd say the Nissan Z/ZX is the all-time "good on paper, terrible in reality" Lemons car, followed by the Camaro.

How about "bad on paper, good in reality" cars? The Saturn SL and Ford Escort certainly qualify. We've seen two apiece Fiats and MGBs, and they've all finished the race.

I can't believe you grouped us in with them Fiat freaks...

When you finish ahead of the Italian Stallions X1/9, you can hold your head up high. Until then, you're lucky we're grouping you with the Fiats and not the (shudder) TR7s.

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Re: Cars to Avoid!!

I've been thinking about a Chevy powered Z. 

If I wasn't racing with a helmet, I might knock some sense into myself.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z
  • Registered: 2009-09-15
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Re: Cars to Avoid!!

Troy wrote:

I've been thinking about a Chevy powered Z. 

If I wasn't racing with a helmet, I might knock some sense into myself.

I'll give/ donate ya a 5.3LS motor, I've got dozens of them. Do it.

If foaming occurs, pull relief.
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Re: Cars to Avoid!!

jgorman wrote:
Troy wrote:

I've been thinking about a Chevy powered Z. 

If I wasn't racing with a helmet, I might knock some sense into myself.

I'll give/ donate ya a 5.3LS motor, I've got dozens of them. Do it.

Where are you located?

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

32 Reply by kalpol (edited by kalpol 2009-10-01 02:33 PM)

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  • Registered: 2009-05-03
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Re: Cars to Avoid!!

"Sparky" Pete wrote:
MurileeMartin wrote:

I'd say the Nissan Z/ZX is the all-time "good on paper, terrible in reality" Lemons car, followed by the Camaro.

How about "bad on paper, good in reality" cars? The Saturn SL and Ford Escort certainly qualify. We've seen two apiece Fiats and MGBs, and they've all finished the race.

I can't believe you grouped us in with them Fiat freaks...

That goes both ways, you know!

Josh Poage
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  • Registered: 2009-09-15
  • Posts: 33

Re: Cars to Avoid!!

Troy wrote:
jgorman wrote:
Troy wrote:

I've been thinking about a Chevy powered Z. 

If I wasn't racing with a helmet, I might knock some sense into myself.

I'll give/ donate ya a 5.3LS motor, I've got dozens of them. Do it.

Where are you located?

Charlotte, NC, 28203,   It is tempting....... That would be a stupid fast car,  Do it, I'll check & see if I've got anyone headed down that way that could bring it.

If foaming occurs, pull relief.
  • From: Toronto, Ontario
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Re: Cars to Avoid!!

MurileeMartin wrote:

I'd say the Nissan Z/ZX is the all-time "good on paper, terrible in reality" Lemons car, followed by the Camaro.

How about "bad on paper, good in reality" cars? The Saturn SL and Ford Escort certainly qualify. We've seen two apiece Fiats and MGBs, and they've all finished the race.

Cavalier/Sunfire...beat the understeer out of them, get one with the Getrag 'box and you can do something with them...don't know about 24 hours though...

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
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Re: Cars to Avoid!!

jimeditorial wrote:
MurileeMartin wrote:

I'd say the Nissan Z/ZX is the all-time "good on paper, terrible in reality" Lemons car, followed by the Camaro.

How about "bad on paper, good in reality" cars? The Saturn SL and Ford Escort certainly qualify. We've seen two apiece Fiats and MGBs, and they've all finished the race.

Cavalier/Sunfire...beat the understeer out of them, get one with the Getrag 'box and you can do something with them...don't know about 24 hours though...

Bring lots and lots of wheel bearings.

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36 Reply by X-args (edited by X-args 2009-10-02 12:57 PM)

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Re: Cars to Avoid!!

Hey! The ONSET Cavalier was good enough for 4th in Detroit '07, and a couple other top 10 finishes.

The understeer is beatable, the wheel bearing issue is beatable (he says optimistically after changing the rear bearing plates to 'Full Size FWD', forcing new junkyard wheels and brakes...) It helps if you have an obsessed ex-GM engineer on your team who loves J-Cars.

The 1st/2nd gen V6 cars are the way to go, enough power to compete and reasonably reliable. I definitely second the manual gearbox, the automatics are weak unless massively upgraded.

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Re: Cars to Avoid!!

ecugrad wrote:
jimeditorial wrote:
MurileeMartin wrote:

I'd say the Nissan Z/ZX is the all-time "good on paper, terrible in reality" Lemons car, followed by the Camaro.

How about "bad on paper, good in reality" cars? The Saturn SL and Ford Escort certainly qualify. We've seen two apiece Fiats and MGBs, and they've all finished the race.

Cavalier/Sunfire...beat the understeer out of them, get one with the Getrag 'box and you can do something with them...don't know about 24 hours though...

Bring lots and lots of wheel bearings.

Yeah, and GM still hadn't fixed it on the Cobalt, which is why the 'Nurburgring Developed' Cobalt SS (and no other Cobalt) uses the Opel 5x110 bolt pattern. Because you sure wouldn't want to lose a wheel on the 'Ring.

The flange that actually holds the wheel to the bearing isn't strong enough and cracks after x cycles of high 'G' loading. GM possibly rightly figured that no J-Car would ever be subject to sustained high lateral loadings, and that the outliers wouldn't have enough lawyers to make it uneconomic to go cheap. This problem has been known by GM since 1982, and how could they have known that a then quite young Jay Lamm would come up with this cockamamie racing series? And that a very dumb team (us) would then KEEP RACING the damn thing after we knew what could happen?!?

So yeah, if you race a Cavalier, bring extra rear wheel bearings.

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2007/2012/2013 Driver's Championship (what was I thinking!?) 142 races and counting.
2/25/24

38 Reply by Spinnetti (edited by Spinnetti 2009-10-05 09:25 AM)

  • From: Frisco, Texas
  • Registered: 2009-05-02
  • Posts: 1,430

Re: Cars to Avoid!!

MurileeMartin wrote:

FWD Celicas have a pretty sucky Lemons history (yes, with a few exceptions, Spinetti).

Well, your curse worked.... It was actually possible for us to win this thing, then with a couple hrs to go, a couple driver mistakes/flags, and then a couple hard rear-enders took out the trans sad

Ok, I give. No more Celica for me, though I think we had the fastest lap of the event with all of 100hp. At least I feel vindicated on my car setup smile

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39 Reply by SMSRACING (edited by SMSRACING 2009-10-05 08:41 PM)

  • From: Cincinnati Ohio
  • Registered: 2009-07-27
  • Posts: 71

Re: Cars to Avoid!!

Hey... How about Festivas??   I am a Festiva NUT...   Have many entered??  Finished??  I wanted to field one for Lamest Day, but my "team" just laughed... and not very loud at that... 

Hell, my "serious" competition car is a Festiva!!   (I am not too serious I guess..)  I mean... it HAS delivered several FTD's in Autocross competition and even smacked down some fairly quick Vettes in the parking lot crowd...  however..... 50 seconds doesn't equal 24 hours.... LOFL...


See....  I am Lemons at heart...
    ok......  here you go.. who else pilots a Lemons IoE contender every Sunday as a DMod Solo car???
http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/895/team.jpg

Owner: Stanford Motorsports (sounds better than it is!)
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  • From: Land Of Subarus, Colorado
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Re: Cars to Avoid!!

SMSRACING wrote:

Hey... How about Festivas??   I am a Festiva NUT...   Have many entered??  Finished??  I wanted to field one for Lamest Day, but my "team" just laughed... and not very loud at that...

We've had a few Festivas. They have not distinguished themselves as particularly sucky on a race track, and they were able to go around the track more times than your typical Nissan Z before falling apart. Team 2Fast2Festiva brought a pair:

http://jalopnik.com/assets/images/gallery/12/2008/05/medium_2517855424_d3b425c6f7_o.jpg

http://jalopnik.com/assets/images/gallery/12/2008/05/medium_2517853288_273c0eec0a_o.jpg

http://jalopnik.com/assets/images/gallery/12/2008/05/medium_2517038821_a501bf419f_o.jpg

If you're anywhere near California, you could probably buy the "airport limo" Festiva that Evil Genius Racing has sitting in their collection of junk. Hell, you could probably get it for free.

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  • From: Cincinnati Ohio
  • Registered: 2009-07-27
  • Posts: 71

Re: Cars to Avoid!!

Bummer.....  I don't like not being unique... LOL..   OK,   maybe two welded together front to back then, with TWO powerplants and TWO drivers seats so if ONE dies, we run it backwards???


and no.. Cincy Ohio....   not too close to the left coast...

Owner: Stanford Motorsports (sounds better than it is!)
Lamest Day entry:  Team EAU RUDE  silver/red NON-CHEATING Sentra SE-R #40  (Crew Chief, Large Fat Bald Guy with white Mutton Chop sideburns)
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  • From: Los Fucking Angeles
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 1,032

Re: Cars to Avoid!!

Troy wrote:

I've been thinking about a Chevy powered Z. 

If I wasn't racing with a helmet, I might knock some sense into myself.

Totally!

The reason you haven't won yet is lack of power. You must do this!

"This is the scene where I get shot," Bronson said. "I have these little squibs that explode to make it look like bullets are hitting." "Fascinating," said Bergman. "I never knew how they did that." "You mean," asked Bronson, "you don't use machine guns in your movies?"
  • From: Houston TX
  • Registered: 2009-05-11
  • Posts: 181

Re: Cars to Avoid!!

How about dodge shadow ES turbos, GLHs, dodge Daytonas?  I owned Shadow ES turbo, and it handled very well, had a water cooled turbo, 2" exhaust, equal length half shafts and beefy CV's, etc, decent brakes - but the "on paper" aspect would be history about the time the engine blew a head gasket and was put back on the trailer.

----------
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Speed Racer Mach5 Mustang
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  • From: Toronto, Ontario
  • Registered: 2009-05-03
  • Posts: 1,114

Re: Cars to Avoid!!

Bring lots and lots of wheel bearings.

Yeah, and GM still hadn't fixed it on the Cobalt, which is why the 'Nurburgring Developed' Cobalt SS (and no other Cobalt) uses the Opel 5x110 bolt pattern. Because you sure wouldn't want to lose a wheel on the 'Ring.

The flange that actually holds the wheel to the bearing isn't strong enough and cracks after x cycles of high 'G' loading. GM possibly rightly figured that no J-Car would ever be subject to sustained high lateral loadings, and that the outliers wouldn't have enough lawyers to make it uneconomic to go cheap. This problem has been known by GM since 1982, and how could they have known that a then quite young Jay Lamm would come up with this cockamamie racing series? And that a very dumb team (us) would then KEEP RACING the damn thing after we knew what could happen?!?

So yeah, if you race a Cavalier, bring extra rear wheel bearings.

REAR wheel bearing failure? On a front-wheel-drive car that's more common than hair on a bear's ass? Hell man, swap in an axle from one of GM's mid size fine cars of the era....can't be too difficult.

Jim "Endo" Anderton
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Re: Cars to Avoid!!

jgorman wrote:
Troy wrote:

I've been thinking about a Chevy powered Z. 

If I wasn't racing with a helmet, I might knock some sense into myself.

I'll give/ donate ya a 5.3LS motor, I've got dozens of them. Do it.

If you have 5.3's around I'll take one. Give ya $100 for it so it's legit and we'll stick it in our vette. Nothing like an ironblock truck motor to power a vettenstein.

Sons of STIG
Judge Jonny, "So, what's the next formerly thought to be immune from winning that will steal the nickels?An MR2? A Fierro (ha ha ha)? A Datsun/Nissan Z? A Camaro?"
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Re: Cars to Avoid!!

jimeditorial wrote:

Bring lots and lots of wheel bearings.

Yeah, and GM still hadn't fixed it on the Cobalt, which is why the 'Nurburgring Developed' Cobalt SS (and no other Cobalt) uses the Opel 5x110 bolt pattern. Because you sure wouldn't want to lose a wheel on the 'Ring.

So yeah, if you race a Cavalier, bring extra rear wheel bearings.

REAR wheel bearing failure? On a front-wheel-drive car that's more common than hair on a bear's ass? Hell man, swap in an axle from one of GM's mid size fine cars of the era....can't be too difficult.

The J body and N body were very similar, but there's no easy swap to an A body Celebrity rear axle, for example.

What we're doing is essentially what you're talking about here, except we're just swapping the wheel bearing mount plates so we can use the A/W body 'OEM big brake' bearings and stop worrying about when the rear wheel's gonna fall off, without having to re-engineer the spring mounts and sway bar.

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2007/2012/2013 Driver's Championship (what was I thinking!?) 142 races and counting.
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  • From: Iowa
  • Registered: 2009-10-05
  • Posts: 91

Re: Cars to Avoid!!

Avoid anything made by Infinity, ask me how I know.  You might think your going to be riding in comfort on the track, but you will be riding in comfort in the paddock watching the rest of the cars race around the track.

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Re: Cars to Avoid!!

Tullamore wrote:

Avoid anything made by Infinity, ask me how I know.  You might think your going to be riding in comfort on the track, but you will be riding in comfort in the paddock watching the rest of the cars race around the track.

Nissan's shouldn't be too bad...


Right Z-guys?

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Judge Jonny, "So, what's the next formerly thought to be immune from winning that will steal the nickels?An MR2? A Fierro (ha ha ha)? A Datsun/Nissan Z? A Camaro?"
  • Registered: 2009-07-27
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Re: Cars to Avoid!!

Quote-How about "bad on paper, good in reality" cars? The Saturn SL and Ford Escort certainly qualify. We've seen two apiece Fiats and MGBs, and they've all finished the race.


We had the #55 Saturn SL2 and had connecting rod problems with both engines. Car ran great (for awhile) and handled awesome (compared to how I imagined it would handle). The Batmobile Saturn was an SL1 and ran with no problems. Is there an oiling problem with the dual cam (SL2) as opposed to the single cam (SL1)? Or was it just because at Nelson you are in a corner more times than you are not (oil starvation)? If we can figure out our problem (maybe it was just two very high mileage motors) I think the Saturn can have a shot at some decent finishes. We hope to prove your "bad on paper, good in reality" theory next time!

  • From: Bend, Or
  • Registered: 2009-05-18
  • Posts: 88

Re: Cars to Avoid!!

Any cadillac eldorado, for either scenario...but a hell of alot of fun to try