Topic: Good/Bad Idea of the Week: Apocalyptic Racing's bar-raising Heroic Fix

http://blog.caranddriver.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/06-Apocalyptic-Racing-1978-Toyota-Celica-at-24-Hours-of-LeMons-Detroit-626x426.jpg

Removing a bad piston and rod and patching the hole in the block with JB Weld and a chunk of license plate is pretty impressive, but but that was just the beginning for Apocalyptic Racing (and guest madman Marc of Radial MR2 fame).

Re: Good/Bad Idea of the Week: Apocalyptic Racing's bar-raising Heroic Fix

Video highlights of the Apocalyptic Celica's weekend are here.

Re: Good/Bad Idea of the Week: Apocalyptic Racing's bar-raising Heroic Fix

My advice for teams out there: Listen to Judge Phil.

When he tells you your carb is ridiculously large for the engine he is properly right.
When he tells you to keep it around 4000 rpm don't set the rev limiter at 6500.
When he tells you to quit messing with a rust filled junkyard carburetor and just fit the 4 barrel to the 2 barrel manifold, find a way, there is always a way.

Also it pays to park beside a master fabricator who can provide good implementation of bad ideas!

We will be back!

Apocalyptic Racing - Occupy Pit Lane racing
Racing the "Toylet" Toyota Celica powered by Chevrolet Ecotec.
24x Loser with the Celica. 16x loser in other fine machines
Overall winner Gingerman 2019

Re: Good/Bad Idea of the Week: Apocalyptic Racing's bar-raising Heroic Fix

Awesome, i love the article smile

it was a blast working with a team that wasn't afraid to get dirty. a team that thought installing an engine to get 60minutes of laps was a good idea smile (after all, the other engine was already on the way when we started on this)

now, if only i could convince them to patch the water leak and keep the engine around as a spare for when they blow the next 22r smile that 3 cylinder beast has more laps left in it!

Re: Good/Bad Idea of the Week: Apocalyptic Racing's bar-raising Heroic Fix

OMG, I thought we have had some rough race weekends.

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleship
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - "Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner

Re: Good/Bad Idea of the Week: Apocalyptic Racing's bar-raising Heroic Fix

Brett85p wrote:

My advice for teams out there: Listen to Judge Phil.

When he tells you your carb is ridiculously large for the engine he is properly right.
When he tells you to keep it around 4000 rpm don't set the rev limiter at 6500.
When he tells you to quit messing with a rust filled junkyard carburetor and just fit the 4 barrel to the 2 barrel manifold, find a way, there is always a way.

Also it pays to park beside a master fabricator who can provide good implementation of bad ideas!

We will be back!

But if you had listened to me, you wouldn't have been the subject of a Car and Driver story!

Re: Good/Bad Idea of the Week: Apocalyptic Racing's bar-raising Heroic Fix

Brett85p wrote:

My advice for teams out there: Listen to Judge Phil.

When he tells you your carb is ridiculously large for the engine he is properly right.
When he tells you to keep it around 4000 rpm don't set the rev limiter at 6500.
When he tells you to quit messing with a rust filled junkyard carburetor and just fit the 4 barrel to the 2 barrel manifold, find a way, there is always a way.

Also it pays to park beside a master fabricator who can provide good implementation of bad ideas!

We will be back!

He said our engine was going to blow up in it's first race and... he was wrong, it waited till its third race for that.

Team Final Gear Crew Chief
#138 1997 Pontiac GTP - Supercharged 3800
#42   1999 Ford P71 Crown Vic

Re: Good/Bad Idea of the Week: Apocalyptic Racing's bar-raising Heroic Fix

In a pinch, you could mount the 20R head with it's goodies to the 22R block. That way you get the intake with the Holley already on it.

Team Seppuku
1979 Toyota Celica GT Liftback

9 (edited by Brett85p 2012-04-26 06:30 AM)

Re: Good/Bad Idea of the Week: Apocalyptic Racing's bar-raising Heroic Fix

clowntrigger wrote:

In a pinch, you could mount the 20R head with it's goodies to the 22R block. That way you get the intake with the Holley already on it.

We had considered this and even brought a head gasket but the 20R head had broken rockers so the assumption is it was hit by the piston pretty hard, I have not pulled it off yet to inspect, if it is ok the it may end up going on the bottom end of the junkyard 22R that completed a lap with no water. What could possibly go wrong?

btw any suggestions for checking the head is not warped ? Is it reasonable to sit it on a glass top table and if it doesn't rock then it's good?

Cheers
Brett

Apocalyptic Racing - Occupy Pit Lane racing
Racing the "Toylet" Toyota Celica powered by Chevrolet Ecotec.
24x Loser with the Celica. 16x loser in other fine machines
Overall winner Gingerman 2019

Re: Good/Bad Idea of the Week: Apocalyptic Racing's bar-raising Heroic Fix

Brett85p wrote:
clowntrigger wrote:

In a pinch, you could mount the 20R head with it's goodies to the 22R block. That way you get the intake with the Holley already on it.

We had considered this and even brought a head gasket but the 20R head had broken rockers so the assumption is it was hit by the piston pretty hard, I have not pulled it off yet to inspect, if it is ok the it may end up going on the bottom end of the junkyard 22R that completed a lap with no water. What could possibly go wrong?

btw any suggestions for checking the head is not warped ? Is it reasonable to sit it on a glass top table and if it doesn't rock then it's good?

Cheers
Brett

i'd just assume it's warped and get it resurfaced. i bet your residual will be $0 so you've got a bit of money to spend to fix it.

send the judges a residual request before you spend anything.

Re: Good/Bad Idea of the Week: Apocalyptic Racing's bar-raising Heroic Fix

20R, 22R, whatever you do - build/buy a windage tray and/or trapdoor sump. The main reason those things are so happy to chuck rods out the side is extremely poor oil control. I can speak from experience that it only takes half a 'G' to make the pump suck air in right-hand corners.

You can start with this http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Small-Blo … ,3512.html
and grab a junkyard pan and start hacking...

These also help: http://www.lceperformance.com/20R-22R-R … 013022.htm

Volvo 544 - now with Chevy 3.9 power!
2007/2012/2013 Driver's Championship (what was I thinking!?) 106 races and counting
7/30/20

Re: Good/Bad Idea of the Week: Apocalyptic Racing's bar-raising Heroic Fix

X-args wrote:

You can start with this http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Small-Blo … ,3512.html
and grab a junkyard pan and start hacking...

These also help: http://www.lceperformance.com/20R-22R-R … 013022.htm

Stock oil pan, cardboard to cut into templates, a CAD system to digitize the cardboard, a water jet, a mill to fab some hinges, your choice of beer, and a welder.

As far as I know, that has all broken loose and is now running around in our oil pan, but it was sound in theory.

"He attacked everything in life with a mixture of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which."   -Adams, Douglas.   The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

14x loser @ Gingerman, Autobahn, Summit Point, New Jersey, Road 'Merica, and Barber

Re: Good/Bad Idea of the Week: Apocalyptic Racing's bar-raising Heroic Fix

How does it work in the budget if I was to buy the LCE crank scraper and use it as a template for a home made crank scraper?

Apocalyptic Racing - Occupy Pit Lane racing
Racing the "Toylet" Toyota Celica powered by Chevrolet Ecotec.
24x Loser with the Celica. 16x loser in other fine machines
Overall winner Gingerman 2019

Re: Good/Bad Idea of the Week: Apocalyptic Racing's bar-raising Heroic Fix

Brett85p wrote:

How does it work in the budget if I was to buy the LCE crank scraper and use it as a template for a home made crank scraper?

the LCE unit costs are not counted in that case.

Re: Good/Bad Idea of the Week: Apocalyptic Racing's bar-raising Heroic Fix

Brett85p wrote:

btw any suggestions for checking the head is not warped ? Is it reasonable to sit it on a glass top table and if it doesn't rock then it's good?

Cheers
Brett

Get a straightedge and some feeler gauges, flip it(the head) over(combustion side up) and use the straight edge to check flatness.  If you can see a gap, you're pretty bad.  The feeler gauges will tell you how bad you really are.  S/F....Ken M

Re: Good/Bad Idea of the Week: Apocalyptic Racing's bar-raising Heroic Fix

It was unreal watching these dudes. Men amongst boys.

Re: Good/Bad Idea of the Week: Apocalyptic Racing's bar-raising Heroic Fix

echosixmike wrote:
Brett85p wrote:

btw any suggestions for checking the head is not warped ? Is it reasonable to sit it on a glass top table and if it doesn't rock then it's good?

Cheers
Brett

Get a straightedge and some feeler gauges, flip it(the head) over(combustion side up) and use the straight edge to check flatness.  If you can see a gap, you're pretty bad.  The feeler gauges will tell you how bad you really are.  S/F....Ken M

Thanks, would a steel framing square work as a straight edge?

Apocalyptic Racing - Occupy Pit Lane racing
Racing the "Toylet" Toyota Celica powered by Chevrolet Ecotec.
24x Loser with the Celica. 16x loser in other fine machines
Overall winner Gingerman 2019

Re: Good/Bad Idea of the Week: Apocalyptic Racing's bar-raising Heroic Fix

WOW......how long did this repair run?

Richard Doty
1984 Porsche 928 "Estate"
Porsche- "there is A substitute" Racing
Dirt Poorsche Racing #2

Re: Good/Bad Idea of the Week: Apocalyptic Racing's bar-raising Heroic Fix

icemang17 wrote:

WOW......how long did this repair run?

6 laps. it would have lasted longer if i would have patched the water leak into the crank case.

i think the engine died from breathing it's own pancake batter that was flowing out of the crank case vent.

Re: Good/Bad Idea of the Week: Apocalyptic Racing's bar-raising Heroic Fix

Looking at pics, I think we may have got more than 6 laps if the oil filler cap had been put back on. Seems to be missing in all the pics I seen. May have cut down on the amount of batter the Carb in jested

12. Gingerman , Heroic Fix award
10/12 Autobahn, 51st overall.
Team Apocalyptic Racing
1978 Ecotec Celica.

Re: Good/Bad Idea of the Week: Apocalyptic Racing's bar-raising Heroic Fix

gullzjr wrote:

Looking at pics, I think we may have got more than 6 laps if the oil filler cap had been put back on. Seems to be missing in all the pics I seen. May have cut down on the amount of batter the Carb in jested

redirection of the batter would have helped, but taking the cap off made the situation better. the crankcase vent breather was right in front of the carburetor it would have dumped things more directly inside the carb.

either way, the whole thing could have been fixed better, i missed the fact that the bore had serious damage on it because i did not look on the other side.

Re: Good/Bad Idea of the Week: Apocalyptic Racing's bar-raising Heroic Fix

Prob a good thing you missed it. If you had fixed it, we may actually have had to do some racing. Now that would be scary.

12. Gingerman , Heroic Fix award
10/12 Autobahn, 51st overall.
Team Apocalyptic Racing
1978 Ecotec Celica.

Re: Good/Bad Idea of the Week: Apocalyptic Racing's bar-raising Heroic Fix

Brett85p wrote:
echosixmike wrote:

Get a straightedge and some feeler gauges, flip it(the head) over(combustion side up) and use the straight edge to check flatness.  If you can see a gap, you're pretty bad.  The feeler gauges will tell you how bad you really are.  S/F....Ken M

Thanks, would a steel framing square work as a straight edge?

It probably would if it's a decent one.  You could check it on that glass table.  Unfortunately, in my world, any nice tools I have are promptly run over by some fool in a truck, borrowed and left out in the rain to rust, etc so I generally don't have decent stuff.  Or if I do, I don't let anyone else know I have it.  S/F....Ken M

Re: Good/Bad Idea of the Week: Apocalyptic Racing's bar-raising Heroic Fix

got something in the mail today!

http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/cobbling/IMG_0464.jpg
http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/cobbling/IMG_0465.jpg

i can't help it think that a bit of duct tape along this crack may have helped make the seal a bit better smile

http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/cobbling/IMG_0466.jpg


now i just need to figure out what i'm doing with this trophy smile

Re: Good/Bad Idea of the Week: Apocalyptic Racing's bar-raising Heroic Fix

Not sure if we would have sucked the duct tape into the engine but the state it was in it may have helped more than it hurt smile

You could start mass producing these, I am sure Phil will agree there is a huge potential market for 20/22R engines with stupid large Holley carburetors!

Apocalyptic Racing - Occupy Pit Lane racing
Racing the "Toylet" Toyota Celica powered by Chevrolet Ecotec.
24x Loser with the Celica. 16x loser in other fine machines
Overall winner Gingerman 2019