Topic: Where is the Troy of lighting?

Hey All,

I'm a relative ignoramus when it comes to lighting.  So far I've driven at night during 2 24 hour races, and my night vision just sucks.

I did a little searching, but there is just too much information out there.

The car, a late 80's Alfa Milano.  Stock alternator, I think it was around 85 amps.  Headlights have been removed, but I could reinstall them.  But I'd like something a little better than stock.  I'm comfortable installing any wiring and relays.

HID?  I've seen kits that fit into the stock housings.  LED?

I'm looking for something that will (a) allow me to circle Buttonwillow at speed, without having to follow a leader, (b) not blind the guy in front of me, and (c) not kill the electrical system too badly.

Any advice or direct pointers will be greatly appreciated.

Thx,

bs

Re: Where is the Troy of lighting?

holy cow, I'm a plethora of knowledge today.

Not LED unless you are trying to make enemies on track.  HID is the way to go.  Either buy a standard HID light like the Hella's, KC's or Kragens.  Or a non-HID and install and HID conversion kit into your housing.

Triple Nickel Racing/TGTW Offroad   
#20 Border Patrol Cherokee "BPC" 
#22 Pink in the Middle Comanche "Double D"
#24 Green Door Handle Scrapping Corolla

Re: Where is the Troy of lighting?

LEDs come in many shapes sizes colors and brightnesses. they are typically the lowest draw, and will work best with your weakest alternators and batteries.

HIDs pull a crap ton of current to light, but are reasonable power sucks after they kick (they are the automotive equivalent of the fluorescent lights in your shop)

halogen and other "standard" bulbs draw the most current on average, but are the easiest to find at 3am in deepest darkest texas.


LEDs have few, if any, automotive plug and play housings for headlamps (lots of marker and taillamps, tho)
HIDs really need to be set in an HID housing. retro fitting HID bulbs in reflectors meant for Halogens typically results in horrendous scatter and glare
halogens are made for cars. every running light, driving light, fog light, and spot light on the aftermarket uses them.


there are always trade offs, but aiming is probably most important, followed by dispersion. wide throw lights are better than narrow focus lights, mounting lights low and aiming them flat is better than mounting them high and aiming them down (especially for glare).

Team OK-Speed
Regularly losing in Class A
Soon to start losing in Class C

Re: Where is the Troy of lighting?

psychoboy wrote:

HIDs really need to be set in an HID housing. retro fitting HID bulbs in reflectors meant for Halogens typically results in horrendous scatter and glare.

Yes.  Exactly.  Here is some detailed info on why you don't want to just jam an HID conversion bulb kit into a reflector designed for a halogen bulb.  Click here.

Team Co-Craptain, Los Cerdos Voladores
Plymouth Neon
Yeah, we're horrible...but we're LEAST Horrible

Re: Where is the Troy of lighting?

Thanks for all the info folks.  So, who's got the recommendation for which bolt on, standalone kit I should be looking at?  Should I be looking at something like this:

http://www.quadratec.com/products/97050_0017_07.htm

bs

Re: Where is the Troy of lighting?

I have a recipe for HID conversion in a widely available halogen housing.  I've read the horror stories on the light nerd forums. Wasn't impressed by the "cant do" attitudes so I went mythbusters scientific method style on the problem and I figured out this recipe after about 10 hours of tinkering and testing... it works. 

A quad light setup runs about $175 to do yourself with parts from amazon and harbor freight...

I'll post it up someday...

ALLEGEDLY!

-Dave
Scuderia Ignorante // Modena / Dearborn / Aichi Prefecture / West Texas

Re: Where is the Troy of lighting?

Hint

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/x9dk4t5ccke4nqwXHPBHutMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-imYmJ-fTmHc/T3Ppvmub-1I/AAAAAAAAAyg/8JidVTmGnzc/s640/IMAG0630.jpg" height="383" width="640" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/109985886492324102979/PreppingToyotaFor24hrNightEndurance?authuser=0&feat=embedwebsite">Prepping Toyota for 24hr/Night Endurance</a></td></tr></table>

ALLEGEDLY!

-Dave
Scuderia Ignorante // Modena / Dearborn / Aichi Prefecture / West Texas

Re: Where is the Troy of lighting?

IgnoranteWest wrote:

Hint

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/x9dk4t5ccke4nqwXHPBHutMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-imYmJ-fTmHc/T3Ppvmub-1I/AAAAAAAAAyg/8JidVTmGnzc/s640/IMAG0630.jpg" height="383" width="640" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/109985886492324102979/PreppingToyotaFor24hrNightEndurance?authuser=0&feat=embedwebsite">Prepping Toyota for 24hr/Night Endurance</a></td></tr></table>

It works better like this:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-imYmJ-fTmHc/T3Ppvmub-1I/AAAAAAAAAyg/8JidVTmGnzc/s640/IMAG0630.jpg

"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!"
IOE winner in the Super Snipe -- Buttonwillow 2012
IOE winner in Super Snipe v2.0 -- Buttonwillow 2016
"Every Super Snipe in Lemons has won an IOE!"

Re: Where is the Troy of lighting?

IgnoranteWest wrote:

I have a recipe for HID conversion in a widely available halogen housing.  I've read the horror stories on the light nerd forums. Wasn't impressed by the "cant do" attitudes so I went mythbusters scientific method style on the problem and I figured out this recipe after about 10 hours of tinkering and testing... it works. 

A quad light setup runs about $175 to do yourself with parts from amazon and harbor freight...

I'll post it up someday...

Thanks All for the responses!  I will look forward to the instructions, $175 for 4 seems better than $250 for 2!

Thx,

bs

Re: Where is the Troy of lighting?

This is what we used at Fernley and will have for Buttonwillow, two sets of Hella Optilux 1900 driving lights, at $51 a set on Amazon, and one set of Hella Optilux 1450 fog lights at $34 a set. Those sets include the wiring, you add the relays. We set each pair with a separate relay and switch. Fog lights pointing out to light up the apex. Worked well for our VW GTI with an alternator about the same size as yours. No stock lights used. Total cost about $150

Dirty Duck Racing, #83 VW Rabbit GTI
'10,'11,12,'13 -Thunderhill, '10,'11,'12,'13,'14 - Buttonwillow, '11,'12,'13,'14 Sears Pointless, '11-Fernley, '13 Sears Even More Pointless-Class B Winner,  '11,'13 Arse-Freeze Sears Point, Return of the LeMonites Miller Motorsports-Class B Winner, '13 A&D Northworst GT-Overall Winner in MT-GT

Re: Where is the Troy of lighting?

We had good lighting last weekend on our car, and I dont mind sharing how we did it.

we used these lights:

http://yellowandbluelighting.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/9/9/996127007-pri.jpg

http://yellowandbluelighting.com/cleara … 27027.html

4 of them. Each housing has 3 bulbs in them. One is a tiny peanut bulb that we never hooked up. The other two are H3 and h7. H3 was the spot style light that went farther distance with a sharper beam, and the other is a wide and down fog style light. As a backup plan, we alternated putting the chinese HID kits between the 4, so we had a pair of halogen spots and a pair of HID, and same with the fogs. If they were too glary, or we needed more light, we could turn on the halogens.

our miata has a 60amp (i think) alternator on it, and it ran the two pair of hid's all night without issue. And those square hella's are $43 a pair, and found a guy locally selling the hid kits for $30 each.

Team Lost in the Dark
Winner " I got screwed" and "Jay's dream car"
2012 Gulf region champs

12 (edited by IgnoranteWest 2012-05-30 06:53 PM)

Re: Where is the Troy of lighting?

It wasn't that i was hiding the recipe, but theres a technique to assembling the parts... all the crazy code in my post was supposed to be a link to the caption of that picture... thanks for posting the pic, picasa wasnt agreeing with me last night.

Get the harbor freight version of kc lights and an hid conversion kit with h3 size bulbs from amazon, you've gotta mess around with washers and additional screws  to space the bulb proper depth...  thats the part thats hard to describe...

CowDriver wrote:
IgnoranteWest wrote:

Hint

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/x9dk4t5ccke4nqwXHPBHutMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-imYmJ-fTmHc/T3Ppvmub-1I/AAAAAAAAAyg/8JidVTmGnzc/s640/IMAG0630.jpg" height="383" width="640" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/109985886492324102979/PreppingToyotaFor24hrNightEndurance?authuser=0&feat=embedwebsite">Prepping Toyota for 24hr/Night Endurance</a></td></tr></table>

It works better like this:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-imYmJ-fTmHc/T3Ppvmub-1I/AAAAAAAAAyg/8JidVTmGnzc/s640/IMAG0630.jpg

ALLEGEDLY!

-Dave
Scuderia Ignorante // Modena / Dearborn / Aichi Prefecture / West Texas

Re: Where is the Troy of lighting?

I can sympathize with the night-vision problems. I couldn't see well at Nelson Ledges so... um... maybe I overcompensated for our night races since then. Happy with the results, though:
http://ronman.org/pics/Lemons/nola10/img_8997_std.jpg
(picture by Ronman, one of many good ones)

Ingredients: Toyota Tundra light bar from Craigslist, including 4 lights. You'll probably be able to find a similar opportunity. For our 944 we just used square tube.
2 more Hella 500's where the headlights once were -- dirt cheap from Amazon. Durable enough for Lemons but you wouldn't do Baja with them.
Junkyard fog lights from another Neon at 45-degree angles outward as apex lights. Cheap chunks of aluminum to get them onto the bar too.

With an 85-amp alternator you shouldn't need to worry much about efficiency (the pictured setup draws 34.5 amps). Wire them all through a few relays so the juice isn't making long trips through 25-year-old Alfa wiring, including a good ground wire.
Aim them all carefully-- that's the most important part! Schedule yourself at least 30 minutes for the aiming so you can aim, drive a circle around the paddock, and repeat.
I like to stagger the angles (vertical and horizontal) of the pairs of lights to get a good spread of light down the track and out toward the apexes.

ONSET/Tetanus Racing, est. 2008.
Guest drives: NSF, Rocket Surgery, Property Devaluation, Terminally Confused, Team Sputnik, The Syndicate, Pit Crew Revenge, Spank, Hella Shitty, Sir Jackie Stewart's Coin Purse, Nine Finger Drifters, Salty Thunder, Panting Polar Bear, Vistabeam, Hangar 13, and Escape Velocity.
74 races so far.

Re: Where is the Troy of lighting?

Oh yeah, I forgot to include the enhancements that Zachreligious made when assembling LightBar v2.0.
1. Grab several 4-pin trailer wiring connectors (or a fistful of 2-pin) to make assembly/disassembly much easier.
2. On both cars we used a fuse-holder block to protect things; Zach pointed out it should be close to the battery so your span of unprotected wire is as short as is practical.

ONSET/Tetanus Racing, est. 2008.
Guest drives: NSF, Rocket Surgery, Property Devaluation, Terminally Confused, Team Sputnik, The Syndicate, Pit Crew Revenge, Spank, Hella Shitty, Sir Jackie Stewart's Coin Purse, Nine Finger Drifters, Salty Thunder, Panting Polar Bear, Vistabeam, Hangar 13, and Escape Velocity.
74 races so far.

Re: Where is the Troy of lighting?

Just wanted to say thanks to all for all of the input and suggestions.  I've decided to do what any irresponsible team captain would do - assign the task to a team member.

I've pointed him at this thread.  I'll let y'all know what he comes up with.  If we blind everybody at Buttonwillow, or drive off the track in a non-illuminated blaze of glory, you'll know he didn't make the right choices.

bs

Re: Where is the Troy of lighting?

We just finished our wiring this weekend. I haven't taken any pictures here's what we currently have though:

2 4 x 6 hi/low headlights in the stock buckets (sealed beams replaced with removable bulb version)
2 5" round "4 wheel parts" 55w off road driving lights with the ribbed lens, not the clear super long range one
2 2"-ish eyeball spot lights I had mounted under the bumper to illuminate the apexes and braking markers
1 3" round flood dead center top of bumper long range flood
1 2" x 4" oblong flood light top of bumper, wide flat light

I figure this ought to give us plenty. the 5" round lights are $20 a piece at your local 4 Wheel Parts store, wiring kit sold separately.

We wired the 2 5" light together with a relay, and the 2 eyeball lights the same way, the other 2 lights are wired directly to their switches. I figured best to have the options of using as few or as many lights at any 1 time as possible. I imagine during a full course yellow I'd turn a few of them off to make the folks in front of me happier.

Constructor/Owner/Driver - Billy Beer Ford Futura

Re: Where is the Troy of lighting?

Don't over think it or kill your altenator.  Stock headlights, plus a pair of Hella 500's pointed down the track, plus a pair of Hella FF 75's pointed at the apex's worked like a champ for us.  Put them on separate switches and you can turn off the 500's when approaching slower traffic.  You can turn them on again a lap later to remind them you are still there :-)

2012 North Dallas Hooptie Judge's Choice Winners
If life gives you Lemons, install racing brakes!
https://www.facebook.com/JoBoRacing

Re: Where is the Troy of lighting?

racerxr wrote:

Don't over think it or kill your altenator.  Stock headlights, plus a pair of Hella 500's pointed down the track, plus a pair of Hella FF 75's pointed at the apex's worked like a champ for us.  Put them on separate switches and you can turn off the 500's when approaching slower traffic.  You can turn them on again a lap later to remind them you are still there :-)

Yeah, basically what I have, the 4 Wheel Parts lights are Hella knock offs. Nothing is more than 55w. the stock headlights are hooked to the stock dimmer for flashing. the other 2 lights are on there because I have them and just in case we lose something due to it burning out, a short, a collision...

Constructor/Owner/Driver - Billy Beer Ford Futura

Re: Where is the Troy of lighting?

Parkwod60 wrote:
racerxr wrote:

Don't over think it or kill your altenator.  Stock headlights, plus a pair of Hella 500's pointed down the track, plus a pair of Hella FF 75's pointed at the apex's worked like a champ for us.  Put them on separate switches and you can turn off the 500's when approaching slower traffic.  You can turn them on again a lap later to remind them you are still there :-)

Yeah, basically what I have, the 4 Wheel Parts lights are Hella knock offs. Nothing is more than 55w. the stock headlights are hooked to the stock dimmer for flashing. the other 2 lights are on there because I have them and just in case we lose something due to it burning out, a short, a collision...

They should force everybody to mount all the lighting ON the front bumper.  That would be more effective than the bumper of damoclese!

bs

Re: Where is the Troy of lighting?

Can't blaming everyone for wanting to go overkill. It's my understanding that the track will not have any sort of markers at night at all, so we want all the light we can get!

I'm going with four stock high beams, two long range 100W spots, and a couple of wider beam lights for the corners.

The Homer: Powerful like a gorilla, yet soft and yielding like a Nerf ball.