1 Topic by Judge Phil (edited by MurileeMartin 2009-10-09 10:58 PM)

  • From: Land Of Subarus, Colorado
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
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Topic: The most reliable Lemons cars

I've been present for 14 of the 19 races in Lemons history, and I can think of only two cars that nearly always keep running all weekend long: the Ford Crown Victoria P71 and the Volvo 240. Neither is particularly fast, but they're cheap, easy to drive, come with excellent brakes right from the factory, and junkyard parts availability is just ridiculous. I'd say 95% of Lemons P71s and 240s don't break down at all, which is about twice the success rate of such favorites as the E30, Integra, and 300ZX. Actually, it's about three times the success rate of the 300ZX, but we don't need to go there.

So, to all you newcomers putting your first Lemons team together, consider the P71 and 240 if you want a good shot at maximum track time and minimum bloody-knuckled wrench time.

However, if you want to be an instant Lemons legend, get a Renault Fuego Turbo!

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2 Reply by Judge Phil (edited by MurileeMartin 2009-10-09 11:11 PM)

  • From: Land Of Subarus, Colorado
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
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Re: The most reliable Lemons cars

And that reminds me: Alfa Romeos have been shockingly reliable as well. Only one of the five Milanos has failed miserably, the Alfettas have a respectable success rate, and the Ecurie Ecrappe and Dog Ciao Spiders manage to stay on the track the majority of the time.

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  • From: Toronto, Ontario
  • Registered: 2009-05-03
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Re: The most reliable Lemons cars

Totally unexpected, re the Alfas.....strongly suggesting that these cars are fundamentally sound, but are let down by emission control systems and accessories...They sure are pretty.....even Ecurie Ecrappe has a faint look of once-proud sleekness, kind of like Jayne Mansfield after the accident...

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....
  • From: St Louis, MO
  • Registered: 2009-08-06
  • Posts: 1,014

Re: The most reliable Lemons cars

You should strongly consider anything with a GM 3800 V6. The #24 LeSabre drove 3 hours to the track last week, raced for a good part of the 24 hours, then drove 3 hours back home without any major problems.

Team Final Gear Crew Chief
#138 1997 Pontiac GTP - Supercharged 3800
#42   1999 Ford P71 Crown Vic
  • From: Piney River, Virginia
  • Registered: 2009-09-07
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Re: The most reliable Lemons cars

Renault Fuego Turbo
On my test drive of a new Renault Fuego Turbo in 1984, the turbo let loose on Grand Ave in Phoenix. The car may have had 17 miles on it.
You would be an instant hero if you had one of those today!

Bill Strong
Racing Strong Motorsports
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  • Spank
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Re: The most reliable Lemons cars

1984 Fuego: $350 or going to crusher in days

http://odessa.craigslist.org/cto/1378021746.html

Spank's Website

  • Registered: 2009-05-16
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Re: The most reliable Lemons cars

I can say the P71 also survives/tolerates really really bad driving.  And there is no need for a "parts" car.  Oh, and $617 for a Lemons ready P71.

8 Reply by Tiago_InternationOLVO (edited by Tiago_InternationOLVO 2009-10-10 11:34 PM)

  • Registered: 2009-10-10
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Re: The most reliable Lemons cars

I sure hope you're right, and that your "Volvo 240" banner covers turbo volvo 240's as well haha. I certainly fear that our car will be the exception to that everlasting rule. It will be fast though, for all 2 or 3 laps!

  • From: Land Of Subarus, Colorado
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Re: The most reliable Lemons cars

Tiago_InternationOLVO wrote:

I sure hope you're right, and that your "Volvo 240" banner covers turbo volvo 240's as well haha. I certainly fear that our car will be the exception to that everlasting rule. It will be fast though, for all 2 or 3 laps!

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/jalopnik/2008/12/LTH08-050.jpg

Well, the Cant Am 242 Turbo is the only 240 I can think of that hasn't been very reliable. Fast, though.

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  • Troy
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Re: The most reliable Lemons cars

This has been covered before but I'll post it again:

Three basic factor affect projects and life:

Price, Time and Reliability/Quality

Works like this: You can have cheap and fast but it will be low quality.

The safer option is cheap and slow but good quality.

Teams that try to go fast in Lemons have a hard time over coming the quality/reliability issue while keeping things cheap.  This would more or less be where my team is that and our car is 36 years old.

Teams that opt to go slow on the cheap get a better reliability factor.  Four cylinder Mustangs come to mind.

Has anyone raced a Camry yet?

Troy

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  • Registered: 2009-05-04
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Re: The most reliable Lemons cars

Troy wrote:

Has anyone raced a Camry yet?

Our MR2 is basically a Camry driving backwards.  That drivetrain is fantastic!  Underpowered....but bulletproof.

Mod Squad Racing
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  • From: Frisco, Texas
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Re: The most reliable Lemons cars

Troy wrote:

This has been covered before but I'll post it again:

Three basic factor affect projects and life:

Price, Time and Reliability/Quality

Works like this: You can have cheap and fast but it will be low quality.

The safer option is cheap and slow but good quality.

Teams that try to go fast in Lemons have a hard time over coming the quality/reliability issue while keeping things cheap.  This would more or less be where my team is that and our car is 36 years old.

Teams that opt to go slow on the cheap get a better reliability factor.  Four cylinder Mustangs come to mind.

Has anyone raced a Camry yet?

Our Celica is a Camry rebody... Normally reliable -  if zero power... ours was the exception however with a litany of motor problems.

"Don't mess with Lexas!" LS400. We survived another one! See website link for build details.
Maker of the "unofficial Lemons fish!" - If you ask nice, I'll likely give you one at the track.

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  • Registered: 2009-10-05
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Re: The most reliable Lemons cars

David Hawkins wrote:
Troy wrote:

Has anyone raced a Camry yet?

Our MR2 is basically a Camry driving backwards.  That drivetrain is fantastic!  Underpowered....but bulletproof.

My parents just traded in a 94 Camry and they were going to give them $250. He was able to talk them up to a whopping $750, so I passed.

Agree, they are slow, underpowered but they are indestructible. Their's was an issue of a poor repair job that rusted out and a fuel-line/gas tank leak that made it "time to move on".

  • From: Los Fucking Angeles
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
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Re: The most reliable Lemons cars

Troy wrote:

This has been covered before but I'll post it again:

Three basic factor affect projects and life:

Price, Time and Reliability/Quality

Works like this: You can have cheap and fast but it will be low quality.

The safer option is cheap and slow but good quality.

Teams that try to go fast in Lemons have a hard time over coming the quality/reliability issue while keeping things cheap.  This would more or less be where my team is that and our car is 36 years old.

Teams that opt to go slow on the cheap get a better reliability factor.  Four cylinder Mustangs come to mind.

Has anyone raced a Camry yet?

Is this what you say to yourself every day when you realize you have to race a hopeless Z?

"This is the scene where I get shot," Bronson said. "I have these little squibs that explode to make it look like bullets are hitting." "Fascinating," said Bergman. "I never knew how they did that." "You mean," asked Bronson, "you don't use machine guns in your movies?"
  • Riktor
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Re: The most reliable Lemons cars

David Hawkins wrote:
Troy wrote:

Has anyone raced a Camry yet?

Our MR2 is basically a Camry driving backwards.  That drivetrain is fantastic!  Underpowered....but bulletproof.

Junkyard turbo anyone?

Sons of STIG
Judge Jonny, "So, what's the next formerly thought to be immune from winning that will steal the nickels?An MR2? A Fierro (ha ha ha)? A Datsun/Nissan Z? A Camaro?"
  • From: Land Of Subarus, Colorado
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Re: The most reliable Lemons cars

Riktor wrote:
David Hawkins wrote:
Troy wrote:

Has anyone raced a Camry yet?

Our MR2 is basically a Camry driving backwards.  That drivetrain is fantastic!  Underpowered....but bulletproof.

Junkyard turbo anyone?

Oh yes, I can't think of anything that would improve an MR2's chronic cooling problems and associated bearing failures more than turbocharging!

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  • From: Lake Orion, MI
  • Registered: 2009-10-06
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Re: The most reliable Lemons cars

Bill Strong wrote:

Renault Fuego Turbo
On my test drive of a new Renault Fuego Turbo in 1984, the turbo let loose on Grand Ave in Phoenix. The car may have had 17 miles on it.
You would be an instant hero if you had one of those today!

Still looking for one in the Great Lakes area.  Gotta be a turbo, of course (not that the 2.2 is much more reliable, but it does take some of the "fun" out of trying to make it last 24 hrs).  Gigantic, leaky accordion of a sunroof is a plus.  Horrid leather seats with Renault logo in contrasting-color leather are another plus (to be used as world's most awful office chair).  An original window decal purporting some kind of connection between Renault's turbo F1 engines and the Fuego's 107-hp screamer will seal the deal.

Enjoy every sandwich.

18 Reply by Judge Phil (edited by MurileeMartin 2009-10-12 10:22 AM)

  • From: Land Of Subarus, Colorado
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Re: The most reliable Lemons cars

Troy wrote:

Has anyone raced a Camry yet?

http://jalopnik.com/assets/images/gallery/12/2008/05/medium_2517988294_3bcdb3a03d_o.jpg

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/12/2009/07/504x_LNE09-Top-21.jpg

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/12/2009/07/504x_LNE09-Top-22.jpg


Yes, we've had some Camrys. They've done pretty well.

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  • Serj
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Re: The most reliable Lemons cars

I honestly can't imagine why you'd wanna run a camry. Toyotas are boring enough to put the judges to sleep without adding the sandman-inspired bodywork and suspension. well, i guess if you ran a new one specifically to get it crushed at the people's curse, i can approve of that.

20 Reply by Judge Phil (edited by MurileeMartin 2009-10-12 10:10 PM)

  • From: Land Of Subarus, Colorado
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 9,416

Re: The most reliable Lemons cars

We have no problems with Camrys (Camries?). It's Miatas, E30s, RX-7s, Mustangs, Celicas, and Civics that are starting to bore us.

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  • FJ40Jim
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Re: The most reliable Lemons cars

MurileeMartin wrote:

We have no problems with Camrys (Camries?). It's Miatas, E30s, RX-7s, Mustangs, Celicas, and Civics that are starting to bore us.

Good to know.  Will continue the search for a lancia Zagato...

Jim C.
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Re: The most reliable Lemons cars

MurileeMartin wrote:
Riktor wrote:
David Hawkins wrote:

Our MR2 is basically a Camry driving backwards.  That drivetrain is fantastic!  Underpowered....but bulletproof.

Junkyard turbo anyone?

Oh yes, I can't think of anything that would improve an MR2's chronic cooling problems and associated bearing failures more than turbocharging!

I didn't say it would make the car more reliable... It's just a solution to the POWER problem...

CHEAP
FAST
RELIABLE

You can only pick two.

(no i didn't mimick Troy. A lot of old time racers say that.)

Sons of STIG
Judge Jonny, "So, what's the next formerly thought to be immune from winning that will steal the nickels?An MR2? A Fierro (ha ha ha)? A Datsun/Nissan Z? A Camaro?"
  • From: Land Of Subarus, Colorado
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Re: The most reliable Lemons cars

FJ40Jim wrote:
MurileeMartin wrote:

We have no problems with Camrys (Camries?). It's Miatas, E30s, RX-7s, Mustangs, Celicas, and Civics that are starting to bore us.

Good to know.  Will continue the search for a lancia Zagato...

Please do. Everyone at Lemons HQ loves Lancias to a disturbing degree.

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  • From: Land Of Subarus, Colorado
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Re: The most reliable Lemons cars

Riktor wrote:

I didn't say it would make the car more reliable... It's just a solution to the POWER problem...

CHEAP
FAST
RELIABLE

You can only pick two.

Sure, but dead stock MR2s are plenty fast around a track. Fast enough to win most any Lemons race if they don't break. It's cars like the Fiat 124 and Mazda 323 that could use some more power.

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  • Mulry
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Re: The most reliable Lemons cars

MurileeMartin wrote:

Sure, but dead stock MR2s are plenty fast around a track. Fast enough to win most any Lemons race if they don't break.

But they all break. Eff this legendary Toyota reliability. It's a myth.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

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