Topic: Yet another newbie thread about car options!

So the prospective crew chief for my embryonic team has offered up a 1970 Dodge Challenger with a Slant 6 and 3-speed automatic. As far as I know it's complete and stock, but I don't know if it ran when he bought it. He took it slightly apart and it's been sitting in his shop for a couple years. I'm trying to determine what a reasonable starting value for this car would be, since it would be a "donation." I can't find any 1st-gen Challenger Sixes on CL or Ebay, and KBB only goes back to 1992.

I know, I know; don't sweat the budget as a newbie. Just bear with me here. I mainly want to get an idea of how much room we might have for improvements. The car's definitely not an IOE contender, so we may as well try to go fast. For all I know, this thing has front drum brakes because it came with a 6-cylinder. If that is the case, would changing over to discs be considered a safety improvement? How about adding a brake booster if it doesn't have one? Stopping power is safety power!

Just out of curiosity, has anyone seen a Challenger in Lemons before? I figure this car would be in either class A or B, depending on whether/how much we cheatify it. Any of the judges care to weigh in on this?

Also, there's the question of theme. Chris from Tetanus Racing (I think) suggested either Vanishing Point or Death Proof, the latter of which would be great if we could get one of the girlfriends to ride the hood through tech inspection. If we actually had some women on the team, I might consider an Archer theme. I was also thinking about what may be the least classy Space Shuttle theme ever.

By the way, if the 2013 schedule is similar to 2012, we'll probably be aiming for Yee-Haw Lemons Texas in February.

Command Pilot/Flight Director, Escape Velocity Racing
Index of Effluency, Heroic Fix, Class C Trophy, now hopelessly gunning for Class B.
Currently 1-2 vs. Team Fairlylame in the Class of 1964 Championships

2 (edited by BoB 2012-08-10 08:59 AM)

Re: Yet another newbie thread about car options!

Take pics and send to Judge Phil with an accurate description and he can help with a starting point budget wise.

Brakes are budget exempt so do whatever you want with them.

I would suggest worry about reliablity first, making it fast can come later, because no matter how fast you make the car if it only runs for a lap you still finish last.

Racing 4 Nickels - 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
2011 SHOWROOM-SCHLOCK SHOOTOUT  IOE Winner
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Re: Yet another newbie thread about car options!

hmm. Those old mopars are pricey due to the popularity of the classic muscle. A friend bought one that was a drag project for hte price of the rear axle and cage material, so I do know they are out there for Lemons money.

It might help to keep the /6 for the first race and then try a 318 or something. Id look at replaceing worn out bushings and making it turn and stop as well as you can within budget. Even without a ton of power, you will still be able to keep up with the pack.

Spend all you want on brakes, everything brake related is safety, and thus budget exempt.

Team Lost in the Dark
Winner " I got screwed" and "Jay's dream car"
2012 Gulf region champs

Re: Yet another newbie thread about car options!

Haha, Brembos all around!

Definitely agree about reliability coming first. I see the general process as something like

1. Put carburetor back on and get the damn thing running and driving.
2. Check wheel bearings, steering, brakes, O-rings, etc. Flush and refill all fluid systems, grease anything that needs greasing.
3. Upgrade front brakes if necessary. Hopefully it's not.
4. Work out good trans cooling.
5. Work out good mans cooling? It's only a February race, but I wanted to write that anyway.

With "strip out and cage" going somewhere in there after we feel properly committed.

If there's any money left after that (both real money and Lemons budget money), then we can think about stiffer shocks or something. I imagine that will have to wait until after the first race when we have a residual value. I don't see us putting a V8 in it unless we managed to blow up the Slant 6. So in order to make that happen, we'll have to put a junkyard turbo on it after our 2nd or 3rd race...

I haven't even seen the car yet, but I'll take some pics when I do.

Command Pilot/Flight Director, Escape Velocity Racing
Index of Effluency, Heroic Fix, Class C Trophy, now hopelessly gunning for Class B.
Currently 1-2 vs. Team Fairlylame in the Class of 1964 Championships

Re: Yet another newbie thread about car options!

SpaceFrank wrote:

2. Check wheel bearings, steering, brakes, O-rings, etc. Flush and refill all fluid systems, grease anything that needs greasing.

No need to check.  I would blindly replace wheel bearings, ball-joints, tie-rod ends, drums/rotors, calipers/wheel cylinders, and shoes/pads.  If you pull them off the car and they are still in decent shape, toss them in your spares pile.

2012 North Dallas Hooptie Judge's Choice Winners
If life gives you Lemons, install racing brakes!
https://www.facebook.com/JoBoRacing

6 (edited by Brett85p 2012-08-10 12:15 PM)

Re: Yet another newbie thread about car options!

Keep an eye on RockAuto closeouts, a quick search shows tie rod ends starting at $4.22 and ball joints at $5 for a 1970 Challenger. like racerxr says, replace and carry the old ones as spares as the local NAPA is not going to have one on the shelf on race day when they start failing.

Apocalyptic Racing - Occupy Pit Lane racing
Racing the "Toylet" Toyota Celica powered by Chevrolet Ecotec.
24x Loser with the Celica. 16x loser in other fine machines
Overall winner Gingerman 2019

Re: Yet another newbie thread about car options!

No moderately stock Challenger will get BS laps.  That is unless you add a bunch of cheaty crap to it.  A stock Challenger will get crushed by the A-B class racers.  We've run some hela MOPAR's and even with some BB sway bars and torsion bars our 340 cars were still built in the 60's.  I'd love to see another team that gets it. 

All the best,
b

This space for rent.

Re: Yet another newbie thread about car options!

Some other suggestions have been given (ask Judge Phil), but you could do something similar to Chump car, find the 10 cheapest slant 6 challengers for sale around the USA with at least one from each quadrant of the country (NE, NW, SW, SE). Average those values and that AVI is your starting point. Unless its a total rust bucket, I'd say you'll have a hard time justifying that its a less than $500 car. Too many people want to build Hemi Cudas (and Challengers) at $40k, even if they are not factory stock.

SpaceFrank wrote:

I figure this car would be in either class A or B, depending on whether/how much we cheatify it.

HA, right! HA. Frank, I think you are new to this Lemons racing thing.  A 3400 lb (stock) car with a 105 hp slant six. You'll be in c-class with the other slant 6 cars, like us DEM 1972 Valiant slant 6, or the Team Oly Express 1965 Baracuda with a 170 cu in slant 6. And you'll have a hell of a time winning class C.

P.S. check out our web page, and if you want to know some tricks for that Mopar, write me, we've got suspension and brakes, just no Hp (working that!)

Dudes Ex Machina: https://www.facebook.com/dudesexmachina

?Everyone who has ever built anywhere a 'new heaven' first found the power thereto in his own hell- Frederick Nietzsche

Re: Yet another newbie thread about car options!

there is a local older guy here in Florida with a 1966 Plymouth Barracuda with a 170ci /6

He Runs 10s on the strip! its stock bottom end and revs to 7500rpm!

dont rag on a slant6!

Re: Yet another newbie thread about car options!

dana_h_acdc wrote:

there is a local older guy here in Florida with a 1966 Plymouth Barracuda with a 170ci /6

He Runs 10s on the strip! its stock bottom end and revs to 7500rpm!

dont rag on a slant6!

In the eighth?

Former chief proprietor and lead bad idea generator of Binford "More Power" Racing, 2010-2013: humbly self-proclaimed the best Chevy Beretta in Lemons history.

Re: Yet another newbie thread about car options!

nope quarter! one of the fastest in the world no turbo (runs close to 200hp NOS) dynoed like 700hp

he also has a 1967 cuda with a 225 /6 that runs with a turbo in the 10s

his biggest competition is another /6 in a valiant that his friend owns

that friend has no cage it ran a 9.60 on hoosier street slicks and was banned from the track!

Re: Yet another newbie thread about car options!

Well, we had our first team meeting today. Things are now official.

Our first decision was to use my 1964 Dodge Dart instead of the Charger. After some consideration, I figured it's a much better idea. It's got the exact same powertrain, is classy-looking as hell, and is far less collectible/valuable. Unfortunately, it absolutely has drums on all corners, so that's something we'll have to fix. Luckily, the guy who owns the Challenger apparently has extra Mopar parts all over his shop.

I'll post some pics of the heap when I get a chance.

Command Pilot/Flight Director, Escape Velocity Racing
Index of Effluency, Heroic Fix, Class C Trophy, now hopelessly gunning for Class B.
Currently 1-2 vs. Team Fairlylame in the Class of 1964 Championships

Re: Yet another newbie thread about car options!

Mmm, I love the '64 Dart.  Great choice!

Former chief proprietor and lead bad idea generator of Binford "More Power" Racing, 2010-2013: humbly self-proclaimed the best Chevy Beretta in Lemons history.

Re: Yet another newbie thread about car options!

SpaceFrank wrote:

Luckily, the guy who owns the Challenger apparently has extra Mopar parts all over his shop..

That set off some alarm bells. I refer you to this link http://jalopnik.com/400309/what-would-s … ge-murilee and suggest you pay extra attention to #4.

Team Final Gear Crew Chief
#138 1997 Pontiac GTP - Supercharged 3800
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Re: Yet another newbie thread about car options!

Some words of wisdom from us guys who thought we had an indestructible engine:

http://pettycashracing.wordpress.com/20 … ad-racing/

30 Time Loser with Class C, Index of Effluency, I got Screwed and Heroic Fix Trophies who usually races, according to Car and Driver, The Greatest Road Racing Cherokee in History.

Check out our FB Page and follow our various exploits.

Re: Yet another newbie thread about car options!

If you stick with a stock 1bbl carb it will be hard to make enough power to hurt the slant six

Constructor/Owner/Driver - Billy Beer Ford Futura

Re: Yet another newbie thread about car options!

PunisherBass wrote:
SpaceFrank wrote:

Luckily, the guy who owns the Challenger apparently has extra Mopar parts all over his shop..

That set off some alarm bells. I refer you to this link http://jalopnik.com/400309/what-would-s … ge-murilee and suggest you pay extra attention to #4.

Well, when I say extra MoPar parts, I mean he's got another complete 225 and possibly another Torqueflite we can bring along to scavenge if we blow something up. Also, we're gonna need some disk brakes off of something.

The Dart currently has a 2-barrel Weber that doesn't work. Depending on what we see when we crack it open, we'll probably keep it.

Considering the looks, location, and vintage of the car, we're thinking about some sort of NASA theme.

Command Pilot/Flight Director, Escape Velocity Racing
Index of Effluency, Heroic Fix, Class C Trophy, now hopelessly gunning for Class B.
Currently 1-2 vs. Team Fairlylame in the Class of 1964 Championships