1 (edited by Judge Jonny 2009-10-26 10:52 AM)

Topic: Z equals Zero

For the last two races (or is that three -- who can keep track) the Lemons Supreme Court has had a special policy in place

"Z = Zero"

Meaning if you show up with a Datsun/Nissan Z, we won't even lift the hood or crawl under your car -- you get Zero BS laps. We don't even care how bad you cheat, because Z's are so fundamentally flawed, they can't win!

Why? We think it's impossible for a Z to EVER win a Lemons race because they are just such terrible endurance cars.

This past weekend in Texas there were about ten Z cars, all getting zero laps, and not one of them won. In fact, a Saturn finished ahead of all of them.

So, go ahead and cheat. We don't care. Drop in a LS1. No laps for you, and you still won't win.

"This is the scene where I get shot," Bronson said. "I have these little squibs that explode to make it look like bullets are hitting." "Fascinating," said Bergman. "I never knew how they did that." "You mean," asked Bronson, "you don't use machine guns in your movies?"

Re: Z equals Zero

orly...

Mike Peters
Former rotary brat pioneer.
3.17.08 Jalopnik Hoon of the day.  #hasbeen
1984 Dodge Rampage, A few SHO engines, a Mustang 8.8, and a lot of hot glue going on now.

Re: Z equals Zero

I feel like Sylvester's son from Looney Toones with a bag over my head.  "Oh the shame..."

We will keep dragging our Z back to the track - knowing all too well that SOMETHING will break.  We will then fix it and start the process all over again.  We're a committed bunch - or we should BE committed.

BRE Datsun (Broke Racing Effluence) formerly Dawn of the Zed Racing
'74 260Z
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/editpicture.php … 2559430584

4 (edited by hrlyTCH 2009-10-26 11:18 AM)

Re: Z equals Zero

i sence a team union forming in the pits.

by this i mean....

say like three teams cars break down one being a Z they pull off a cut an shut Lemons vehicle in the pits

Z car body with engine from one trans from the other and all come together to garboon and monster garage one car together all in the paddock.


if that happened would it be dis-allowed having all three teams toss their transponder into the one hack jobbed car to make up for teams bombing out while celebrating a union of the Lemons crap cans?

sounds bizarre but cool in my head at least.....definately be cool to see or be done in a Lemons weekend

p.s. it sounds evil but im sure someone will tempt it at some point

Re: Z equals Zero

hrlyTCH wrote:

if that happened would it be dis-allowed having all three teams toss their transponder into the one hack jobbed car

This sounds like a good plan, we just need to plant our transponder in a Toyota, Mazda or BMW.  Maybe 3 Z transponders planted in 3 other vehicles.

A V8 would be really cool.  I really struggled with an L-series or a V8.

Our car doesn't lose due to the lack of speed, reliability and driving are bigger problems.

I'll take whatever help we can get through BS.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

Re: Z equals Zero

Oh yeah, a V8 Z would totally win! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Also: ha ha ha ha ha!

Re: Z equals Zero

Hey if you're going to plant your transponders, at least try to be creative.

Our Audi 80 crapped out at Stafford at the 2008 race (now how could that have happened??) blowing a head gasket and the radiator to shreds.  At that point we were in about 10th place and about 50 laps ahead of our "arch rival" teammates in the CoROLLa.    Unfortunately, there was still 2 hours of racing left.

Seeking ways to ensure finishing ahead of them (and of course winning the corresponding bet for case of beer), we considered slipping the transponder into our teammate's driving suit. 

After figuring that would not work, we consulted Jay and he encouraged us to tie it onto a fishing pole and wave it in a circle from the starter's stand at the start/finish line.  (I'm sure the position on the starter's stand would have required some some suitable bribe of course).

Unfortunately, we never found a fishing pole (or the gonads to actually try it).   big_smile

-- John Robertson / Schumacher Taxi Service

Know more about a Craptation, coROLLa and BMW than I ever wanted to!
Stafford 08, CMP Spring/Fall 09, Stafford 09, Nelson Ledges 09, CMP Winter 10, VIR Chump 10, IOE Winning Craptation CMP Spring 2010, and lots more

Re: Z equals Zero

Maybe I need to plan a little fishing expedition next race.  There's even a pond at MSR.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

Re: Z equals Zero

Ya know, this sounds like a challenge, I like a challenge.  Maybe its time to ditch my Camaro and run a Z.  CLEARLY we have had it too easy so far.  hehe.  Hmmm...a V8 Z-car  my mind boggles and the stomach heaves!

Team Sucker Punch:Winner Org Choice award Were the Elite Meet to Cheat 2015
Chevy Camaro (Tiger striped #38)  (1989-2017 RIP old friend)
Chevy Corvette 1984......and still racing!

Re: Z equals Zero

You know what?  Now that I think about it, you are absolutely right.  Why waste your time, we have no chance of winning whatsoever. 

We have never, ever cheated (just like everyone else) and even if we did, it would be pointless since chances are we are not going to finish anyways.  We should be let through without question.  To check under our hood would just be a waste of your time.  Time that could be spent on real cars like RX-7s, Jettas, and Monte Carlos.

Thanks for letting us through tech so easily.  It has been and will continue to be appreciated.

Re: Z equals Zero

BlackSheep1 wrote:

You know what?  Now that I think about it, you are absolutely right.  Why waste your time, we have no chance of winning whatsoever.

We're so glad you guys manage to do so well, because it gives false hope to all those other poor saps with Zs and ZXs. But we can relax the Zero For Zs rule for your team and go over your totally legit car with a magnifying glass, just out of respect for your principled stand against cheating.

Re: Z equals Zero

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/jalopnik/2009/10/Z_Wipeout-800px.jpg

Without Zs, would we get to witness scenes like this one?

Re: Z equals Zero

Troy, will you please retype your soliloquy/litany on S30 lower control arms?

"This is the scene where I get shot," Bronson said. "I have these little squibs that explode to make it look like bullets are hitting." "Fascinating," said Bergman. "I never knew how they did that." "You mean," asked Bronson, "you don't use machine guns in your movies?"

Re: Z equals Zero

MurileeMartin wrote:

...we can relax the Zero For Zs rule for your team and go over your totally legit car with a magnifying glass, just out of respect for your principled stand against cheating.

Wow, you would do that for us?  The though of being treated with that level of respect brings a tear to my eyes, but I must decline.  It wouldn't be fair to the other Zs or the Z legacy.

Thanks again for the offer but we don't mind being treat like every other Z and just waved right through.

Re: Z equals Zero

Damn, Rob.  That was so slippery, I can feel the slime all the way over here.

But, they're not gonna look at your Z.  C'mon, if *I* can break your Z in less than 3 minutes at an autocross... is it really worth their time?  wink

Lemons South 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Spring 2009 - Fail, Lemons Detroit(ish) 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Fall 2009 - Fail, Lamest Day 2009 - Fail, Miami 2010 (Chump) - 2nd!, Sebring 2010 (Chump) - Fail, Cuba 2010 - Crew Chief, Roebling 2011 (Chump) - 8th!, Sebring 2011(Chump) - 19th!

Re: Z equals Zero

Loren wrote:

... C'mon, if *I* can break your Z in less than 3 minutes at an autocross... is it really worth their time?  wink

Ha!

To let everyone in on what Loren is talking about:
After running two races at CMP (~30 hours) without any mechanical problems, Loren gets in our Z and after 3 runs ( ~ 3 mins) the car coasts to a stop at the finish line and refuses to restart.

Pair that with the information in his sig "EuroTrash E30 - Lemons South 2008 (cooling probs) & Spring 2009 (fueling prob), 2Slow E30 - Lemons Detroit(ish) 2008 (transmission problems), Jackie Ickx GT30/3000GT - Lemons South Fall 2009 (spun bearing) & Lamest Day 2009 (exhaust & fuel leaks)" and you start to wonder if he has a car gremlin playing pranks on him.

Luck for him he is a great driver (that is when he can get in a car that will stay running.)

Re: Z equals Zero

Tryin' to help you out and make your car look crappy so you'll sail through BS inspection again, bro... your Z is a total pile of crap.  <nudge nudge, wink wink>

Lemons is won by great mechanics, not great drivers!

Lemons South 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Spring 2009 - Fail, Lemons Detroit(ish) 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Fall 2009 - Fail, Lamest Day 2009 - Fail, Miami 2010 (Chump) - 2nd!, Sebring 2010 (Chump) - Fail, Cuba 2010 - Crew Chief, Roebling 2011 (Chump) - 8th!, Sebring 2011(Chump) - 19th!

Re: Z equals Zero

Slant six Z?


KT

TH 2009- 40th ~ SP 2010- 13th Class Bad win!! TH 2010- 17th ~TH 2010- 16th  SP 2011- 20th ~ RF 2011- 13th Least Horrible Yank Tank ~ TH 2011- 79th
SP 2011- 105th ~ SP 2012- 119th ~ SP 2013- 139th ~ BW 2013- 17th
Follow Filthy on Facebook: Flailing Lizard Motorsports

Re: Z equals Zero

MurileeMartin wrote:

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/j … -800px.jpg

Without Zs, would we get to witness scenes like this one?

That's what happens when you let guys who race Porsche's drive your car.

Now about lower control arms....

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

Re: Z equals Zero

Gotta say, me and my teammates that were at the BS inspection at MSR on Friday laughed out loud as we were watching Murilee BS-inspecting ... I think... the gray 'Celica-Audi' when the owner of said car was bristling at something. 

At that moment, a Z-car rolled up to be BS'ed and Judge says "oh, you want me to piss you off, watch this... Z EQUALS ZERO!... Zero penalty laps for all Z-Cars, I don't even want to look under the hood... "  (paraphrased from memory, I was laughing too hard to remember exactly). 

He then sent the stunned and amazed Z-car crew on it's way while the other guy was just mouth agape.   It was funny as hell!

I think that was a 300z.


Hmmm... Z car with a volvo diesel motor in it?... what is the biggest single point of failure on a Z?... motor, trans, or is there just no one thing and -everything- just falls off of them?

Re: Z equals Zero

jamesohoh7 wrote:

... what is the biggest single point of failure on a Z?... motor, trans, or is there just no one thing and -everything- just falls off of them?

I can't speak for the 300ZXs, but the S30s are all between 30 and 40 years old and most have had very hard lives.  There are plenty of Z cars that would run strong and finish the race, but they are not $500 cars.  The $500 S30s are rusted all to hell, driven into the ground, or both.  S30s were cheap cars when new, so owners didn't baby them.  It would be like trying to find a 30 year old Hyundai Excel that has been taken care of.

Not an excuse, just the way it is.

Our '74 Z was used up and left for dead in a barn over 15 years ago.  Every single mechanical system on the car was junk.  After hundreds of hours, but little money, we tried to make it live 24 hours on a race track.  We were unsuccessful, but we will now build on what we learned and try again next season.  We might break early again, but eventually we will have a car that can finish a race...  I hope.

BRE Datsun (Broke Racing Effluence) formerly Dawn of the Zed Racing
'74 260Z
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/editpicture.php … 2559430584

Re: Z equals Zero

Typically our 73 240Z has had clutch/transmission problems.

More recently, we have been having cooling problems.  We have been sucking our lower radiator hose shut which may have been part of our problem.  By Sunday we had a hose with a spring that won't suck shut and changed the radiator but we are still getting hot.  We are running 10+:1 so tuning can screw us too.

One problem with the early S30 Z cars is finding a reliable ignition system.  The vacuum advance on many of the electronic ignition systems will fail and take out the whole thing or just not work right.  Dave @ Rebello also talked about this and made some suggestions similar to some ideas I have had.  I just have to do it.

Once I get a distributor modded, I share the info.

As old as the early Zs are, finding parts can be difficult, finding good parts can be really difficult!

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

Re: Z equals Zero

jamesohoh7 wrote:

what is the biggest single point of failure on a Z?

Well, they like to blow head gaskets. They also like to drop dead with undiagnosable electrical problems. Then there's the whole transmission/clutch thing, and the brake failures. Did I mention fuel-system woes?

Re: Z equals Zero

My car has not had an fuel problems.  I installed a cell and it has been good so far.  Some cell installs in other cars have not worked right.  Some stock tanks have had issues too.  Like Jeff said, most early cars were abused and neglected.

With carbs our car doesn't need a lot of electronics to run, just a questionable distributor.  EFI cars are probably like an E30.

Brakes should not be a problem but you have to properly set them up.  My car has had no brake problems.  Rear drums on early cars are less than impressive and may need adjustment to maintain good pedal through a race.  If you put on rear discs, that problem is gone.

Old rubber stuff in almost any brake system will die if you run a long time in a race.

Clutches/transmission is pretty much all driver error.  The more drivers you have the worse your odds get.

Added compression stresses the head gaskets more.  Long aluminum heads do not like to get hot.  Add heat and compression and you are playing with fire.

The 80's Zs are glorified Touring Sedans, especially the first gen 300ZX.  They are like the Cadillacs of the Z car line.  Some 280ZXs head light washers for crying out loud.  However, they are newer and seem to be more reliable.

Zs are fun cars but they have their issues.  Once they are in the $500 range they start having MORE issues.

In a Non-LeMons form, the 240Zs still set records.  I think they set a new record in Florida this year.  There are solutions to many of our problems but they can get very pricey and exceed the Lemons budget.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

Re: Z equals Zero

I would just like to point out that the every time Troy's Z runs a race it breaks.

Meanwhile, the me and Judge Martin's old car, the Black Metal V8olvo, has run as many races as Troy's Z (4), has never broke, even at Altamont (OK -- one busted control arm -- but that was from RAMMING!) and actually WON the race.

Ford 302 mashed into a Volvo body.

Just sayin'

"This is the scene where I get shot," Bronson said. "I have these little squibs that explode to make it look like bullets are hitting." "Fascinating," said Bergman. "I never knew how they did that." "You mean," asked Bronson, "you don't use machine guns in your movies?"