Re: A new chapter begins...

TeamLemon-aid wrote:

We'll be measuring this week.  Then the cutting starts.

...isn't that backwards? wink  Good luck guys, looking forward to seeing this mutant Metro out on the track next year, whatever form it takes smile

Former chief proprietor and lead bad idea generator of Binford "More Power" Racing, 2010-2013: humbly self-proclaimed the best Chevy Beretta in Lemons history.

Re: A new chapter begins...

dculberson wrote:
obsolete wrote:
TeamLemon-aid wrote:

Waiting for criticism... wink

A V6 would be an easier fit in that short engine bay, since it's only 3 cylinders deep.

Correction: the engine bay is 3 cylinders wide.

Well, right.  But the V6 is 3 cylinders deep, making it easier to fit longitudinally in a FWD engine bay than an I4 without drastic compromises.  The 60-degree is also more compact thanks to its pushrod design--no big OHC heads in the way.  The only problem is that it's kinda tall.  Probably not going to clear the hood.  But neither is that M42.

Former chief proprietor and lead bad idea generator of Binford "More Power" Racing, 2010-2013: humbly self-proclaimed the best Chevy Beretta in Lemons history.

28 (edited by therood 2012-11-20 01:28 PM)

Re: A new chapter begins...

BoB wrote:
Speedycop wrote:
therood wrote:

Phil put it in B at the last race. I think it's won C every time it's been in it.

Not EVERY time...  big_smile

Ok so 3 times and wasn't atleast one of the finishes in the teens overall?

Without looking, I'm pretty sure the June race at Autobahn was a Top 10 finish and both of the Class C wins were Top 20.

Also: Apologies to Speedy for the snub on his EPIC Class C win at Gingerman.

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com

Re: A new chapter begins...

I vote for a Ford V4 from a Saab... that's only two cylinders deep. wink

Lorin Mueller
Scuderia Asino formerly Team Haulin' Ass - 83 Plymouth Scamp
Team Soccer Moms - 93 Dodge Caravan

Re: A new chapter begins...

No apology necessary, just had to bust your balls. It was hard-fought to the end.

Captain: Speedycop & The Gang Of Outlaws -'94 Mark VIII (Least Horrible Yank Tank Stafford '09, NOLA '10) '61 Caddy (Org Choice-NL '09) '63 Tbird (EPIC Repair Failure-Gingerman '10, I Got Screwed-Summit Pt '10, I.O.E. WINNER Stafford '10!) '77 Lancia Scorpion (I.O.E. WINNER Joliet 2010!) '67 Galaxie 500 (Judges Choice-CMP '11)
Future Fleet: 1957 Ford Prefect 1942 Buick 1959 Bugeye Project GLCOAT

Re: A new chapter begins...

Fact. Speedy had an advantage though.  He was the only one driving.. er.. allegedly.  wink

We were actually only 3 for 6 in class C.  Got 2nd once or twice and 3rd at MAM I think.

Not sure why a new team wouldn't build a hypermile car as their first Lemons vehicle.  Harder to break stuff.  The Metro lasted 7 races on the same 3 cylinder engine.  Only changed front pads twice and rears once. 

I drove an hour and 10 minutes on a completely flat right rear tire at Autobahn in the rain.  Tire never shredded.  We won't be able to get away with that with the new setup.

We've already proven a faster car isn't better.  The Metro has beat our own E30.  Same drivers.  Same race.

Speedycop wrote:

No apology necessary, just had to bust your balls. It was hard-fought to the end.

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.

Re: A new chapter begins...

TeamLemon-aid wrote:

We were actually only 3 for 6 in class C.  Got 2nd once or twice and 3rd at MAM I think.

Sorry to hijack this thread: I actually made this a trivia question the The Rusty Hub's FB page. There are only two other teams to have 3 Class C wins. Anyone [who didn't see it on TRH] know who they are?

Hints:

- 1 team (Besides LemonAid) did it in three consecutive races at the same track. They also won an IOE in there.
- 1 team did in three races within 4 months of each other.
- None of them are West Coast teams.

Winner gets me to shut the hell up.

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com

Re: A new chapter begins...

Sputnick did it with the Stanza wagon.

Captain: Speedycop & The Gang Of Outlaws -'94 Mark VIII (Least Horrible Yank Tank Stafford '09, NOLA '10) '61 Caddy (Org Choice-NL '09) '63 Tbird (EPIC Repair Failure-Gingerman '10, I Got Screwed-Summit Pt '10, I.O.E. WINNER Stafford '10!) '77 Lancia Scorpion (I.O.E. WINNER Joliet 2010!) '67 Galaxie 500 (Judges Choice-CMP '11)
Future Fleet: 1957 Ford Prefect 1942 Buick 1959 Bugeye Project GLCOAT

Re: A new chapter begins...

Speedycop wrote:

Sputnick did it with the Stanza wagon.

Yep. Three Class C wins in four months in 2011.

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com

Re: A new chapter begins...

What the heck? How are people taking multiple Class C wins?

We take a four-banger minivan to a Class C victory and instantly we're bumped to B. lol

Lorin Mueller
Scuderia Asino formerly Team Haulin' Ass - 83 Plymouth Scamp
Team Soccer Moms - 93 Dodge Caravan

Re: A new chapter begins...

TeamLemon-aid wrote:

Not sure why a new team wouldn't build a hypermile car as their first Lemons vehicle.  Harder to break stuff.  The Metro lasted 7 races on the same 3 cylinder engine.  Only changed front pads twice and rears once.

Shhhh!  The only way my 76 hp 1.6 liter from 1982 is going to finish well is by making long stints with tremendous reliability.  Perhaps I should have chosen a different platform...

A&D: 2011 Autobahn, 2012 Gingerman, 2012 Road America, 2012 Autobahn II, 2013 Gator-O-Rama (True 24!)
Sir Jackie Stewart's Coin Purse Racing
2013 Chubba Cheddar Enduro - Organizer's Choice, 2014 Doing Time in Joliet
http://www.facebook.com/#!/SirJackieSte … urseRacing

37

Re: A new chapter begins...

Racin_G73 wrote:
TeamLemon-aid wrote:

Not sure why a new team wouldn't build a hypermile car as their first Lemons vehicle.  Harder to break stuff.  The Metro lasted 7 races on the same 3 cylinder engine.  Only changed front pads twice and rears once.

Shhhh!  The only way my 76 hp 1.6 liter from 1982 is going to finish well is by making long stints with tremendous reliability.  Perhaps I should have chosen a different platform...

Hypermiling doesn't guarantee IOE glory, for that you need a car that is horrible in reliability, performance and fuel mileage.

Racing 4 Nickels - 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
2011 SHOWROOM-SCHLOCK SHOOTOUT  IOE Winner
2012 The Chubba Cheddar Enduro Class C winner
Facebook Page

Re: A new chapter begins...

I didn't mean a team would get IOE, just that its much easier to have fun (at first) when your car actually is running well and on the track.

We had our 3 wins over two years, and none of the wins were consecutive, so I think we flew under the radar a little, and got to stay in C.  Not to mention we routinely were in the bottom 5 cars for fastest lap.  If we passed you, you were doing something wrong. smile

BoB wrote:
Racin_G73 wrote:
TeamLemon-aid wrote:

Not sure why a new team wouldn't build a hypermile car as their first Lemons vehicle.  Harder to break stuff.  The Metro lasted 7 races on the same 3 cylinder engine.  Only changed front pads twice and rears once.

Shhhh!  The only way my 76 hp 1.6 liter from 1982 is going to finish well is by making long stints with tremendous reliability.  Perhaps I should have chosen a different platform...

Hypermiling doesn't guarantee IOE glory, for that you need a car that is horrible in reliability, performance and fuel mileage.

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.

Re: A new chapter begins...

i was hoping for a RWD iron duke.

or...a FWD iron duke if you wanted to be really fun.

Team OK-Speed
Regularly losing in Class A
Soon to start losing in Class C

Re: A new chapter begins...

Got some measurements done today. Looks like the Metro engine bay has 5 less inches behind the strut towers to the firewall than an E30 (5" vs 10"). The distance from the firewall to the radiator supports is within an inch of each other. The distance from where the BMW subframe will sit to the hood is about 25" in both cars. That is more similar than our initial eye-ball estimates. Factory track width figures are only 2" different. Nothing some fender flares and a "power bulge" in the hood won't fix.  We may have some clearance issues with the 1.8L radiator, but we have a lower profile radiator in an old import pickup that might work. 

It looks like we have more room in the footwells than we thought.  We should have room to modify the firewall and create a transmission tunnel.  We absolutely want to avoid having to move the driver seat rearward from its current location as we don't want to have to move the cage.

We're planning on transplanting the entire front end of an E30 to use the subframe, suspension, control arms, hubs, brakes, steering rack, etc. The hope is to limit mating Geo parts to BMW parts. We'll have to fabricate mating surfaces for the transplanted front subframe and will likely have to modify the front shock towers somewhat.

We will be moving a (M42) 1.8L 4-cylinder with manual tranny from an E36 1994 318is. Obviously we will be creating a transmission tunnel, and will be transplanting an E30 rear end with LSD and good gears for the race track. We can then have 4 wheel disc brakes. The wheelbase is a few inches longer in the E30, so we may move back (yes.. back) the location of the rear wheels a little bit and also modify the driveshaft. May look at an early Z3 driveshaft as an option. We actually need the rear wheels to move back a little due to the mounting points of the rear main stays of our roll cage. With the new ruling that says the rear-most portion of the mounting plates have to be in front of the rear of the back tires, we may be in violation of this rule as things sit now. With the rear track width widening, we'll need to create fender flares of some sort.  It looks like center of the rear strut towers of the Metro are within an inch of the E30.

We plan to eliminate the current stock fuel tank, and install a FIA-rated fuel cell. There won't be room in the stock location with the new drivetrain. We'll likely mount it in the rear hatch area, in front of the rear main stays of the roll-cage. We'll have to cage the fuel cell also. In addition, we'll be relocating the battery to the rear of the car, not sure on the location yet.

Hopefully my next update will be with pictures as we get the BMW and Metro side by side with BMW parts laying against the Metro.

I guess with this update, I wanted to ask this question.  Are we getting into X-class territory?  I'm not aware of any x-class cars in the Midwest, but we would be really bummed to go to this trouble, and have no one to really race against.

If anyone has any comments on probable issues we are overlooking, we're al ears.

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.

Re: A new chapter begins...

Didn't the 2013 rules eliminate the X class?

Newest member - White Trash Racing
Owner of the Traveling Hat

Re: A new chapter begins...

psychoboy wrote:

i was hoping for a RWD iron duke.

or...a FWD iron duke if you wanted to be really fun.


I'm with this selection.

_______________
#3 IROC MAIDEN

Re: A new chapter begins...

"the punishment of the iron duke needs to be reserved for the E30s and the Miatas." - psychoboy

Just thought that was funny... wink


psychoboy wrote:

i was hoping for a RWD iron duke.

or...a FWD iron duke if you wanted to be really fun.

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.

44 (edited by psychoboy 2012-11-27 12:50 PM)

Re: A new chapter begins...

yeah, after further thought, the work required for a drivetrain swap should make the car better (on paper, at least) as a result. 11-ty billion hours for less hp than stock just isn't a worthwhile trade.

unless it's an e30 or a miata...in which case, the swap should make the car worse, on paper and otherwise.


that being said, the iron duke IS an improvement (on paper) to your car...so it's still a viable option

Team OK-Speed
Regularly losing in Class A
Soon to start losing in Class C

Re: A new chapter begins...

True...but waaaay less reliable than our 3-cylinder nugget.  smile


psychoboy wrote:

that being said, the iron duke IS an improvement (on paper) to your car...so it's still a viable option

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.

Re: A new chapter begins...

TeamLemon-aid wrote:

True...but waaaay less reliable than our 3-cylinder nugget.  smile


psychoboy wrote:

that being said, the iron duke IS an improvement (on paper) to your car...so it's still a viable option

well...the world is built on trade-offs and compromises.

Team OK-Speed
Regularly losing in Class A
Soon to start losing in Class C

Re: A new chapter begins...

We've removed Metro subframes.  It's pretty well clean.  Even the gas tank is gone (although it's still there in a few of the pics I took)

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o173/cromec/Snapbucket/B0BFE876.jpg

BMW E30 rear subframe.  We hope to make the Metro fit the BMW parts, not the other way around.

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o173/cromec/Snapbucket/A8C78296.jpg

BMW front subframe. 

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o173/cromec/Snapbucket/2745E5A1.jpg

We're thinking we may have to cut out the cage to do what we want to do.  If we need to, we may just pay to have a new cage made that will work better with the "new" car.

Frankly, it would've probably been easier to build a new car than use this one.  But this one has some "history".

I plan to post pics through the build.  It will hopefully keep us motivated to keep moving forward.

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.

Re: A new chapter begins...

Santa came early!!!!

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o173/cromec/Snapbucket/D68B30EB.jpg

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.

Re: A new chapter begins...

M50NV? Your car will scream with that thing!

The Homer: Powerful like a gorilla, yet soft and yielding like a Nerf ball.

Re: A new chapter begins...

Think a tad more HP. wink.

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.