Re: airplane powered car, with the correct engine this time.

Do you have a '67 Olds 442 'vert?!?

Captain: Speedycop & The Gang Of Outlaws -'94 Mark VIII (Least Horrible Yank Tank Stafford '09, NOLA '10) '61 Caddy (Org Choice-NL '09) '63 Tbird (EPIC Repair Failure-Gingerman '10, I Got Screwed-Summit Pt '10, I.O.E. WINNER Stafford '10!) '77 Lancia Scorpion (I.O.E. WINNER Joliet 2010!) '67 Galaxie 500 (Judges Choice-CMP '11)
Future Fleet: 1957 Ford Prefect 1942 Buick 1959 Bugeye Project GLCOAT

77 (edited by Marc 2013-02-01 04:52 AM)

Re: airplane powered car, with the correct engine this time.

Speedycop wrote:

Do you have a '67 Olds 442 'vert?!?

I do have one in my garage, but it isn't mine.

Family of a good friend that helps me work on the Lemons inherited it and it needs a bit of work to bring it up to snuff. new door catch, carb adjust and a bunch of other little things. working it in to have it ready for him by this spring. it's got a really nice 455 in there, probably puts out 500hp or so (dynoing it is on the list of things to do). it sounds awesome and drives great.

i gotta admit though, driving that thing around makes me want an old car. it's hard not to look classy in a 442 convertible cool

Re: airplane powered car, with the correct engine this time.

My '67 was a 442 clone with a built 455:
http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz148/SpeedycopPics/olds442_zpsa9cbc673.jpg

Man do I miss that car.

/threadjack

Captain: Speedycop & The Gang Of Outlaws -'94 Mark VIII (Least Horrible Yank Tank Stafford '09, NOLA '10) '61 Caddy (Org Choice-NL '09) '63 Tbird (EPIC Repair Failure-Gingerman '10, I Got Screwed-Summit Pt '10, I.O.E. WINNER Stafford '10!) '77 Lancia Scorpion (I.O.E. WINNER Joliet 2010!) '67 Galaxie 500 (Judges Choice-CMP '11)
Future Fleet: 1957 Ford Prefect 1942 Buick 1959 Bugeye Project GLCOAT

Re: airplane powered car, with the correct engine this time.

what do you mean by clone? rebadged cutlass?

as far as i know the one in the shop is an actual 442, but it's got a different motor, trans, rear end, hood, wheels, gauges, radio and interior door pulls. it'll never be a concourse car but it's a great driver.


back on topic, i should have the z-drive tonight. i've even got the weekend to work on it so my goal is to have a good part of the turbine to z-drive adapter made this weekend. if i get past that i'll also work on the motor mount bracketry. as it is, the motor is designed to only be mounted by the rear. the bottom and front has no motor mounts. I'll have to add some kind of cradle to support the oil tank at the bottom that runs the length of the engine and balance it at the two stock Nova motor mount locations. i have to be very careful not to use the turbine as a stressed member.

Re: airplane powered car, with the correct engine this time.

Some inspiration for your build, the Shelby 'Botonty' 500 Turbine Indy car.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-SArQ6fw9OFM/UQyyBT2JjhI/AAAAAAAAM14/3qADKjXYvvc/s720/_MG_2975.JPG
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-PU4DTILdWMw/UQyyCJTIG2I/AAAAAAAAM2A/25hrARr8wtM/s720/_MG_3005.JPG
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-gEZsAkKI-L8/UQyx_wADXoI/AAAAAAAAM1w/TRwwEOlnxF8/s720/_MG_3001.JPG

Re: airplane powered car, with the correct engine this time.

ahh, yes, the T58 turbine. that thing produces 1400hp or so (multiple trims are available but 1400hp is the popular one). it's the equivalent of the ford 302 of the turbine world. i kept tripping on it as i was searching for a turbine. they are just about everywhere and available for 10-15k but you can't expect to have 1400hp on tap and use the bottom 100-400hp safely smile

if all goes well with this build, i may have to build a T58 based street/strip car smile

Re: airplane powered car, with the correct engine this time.

while the thought of a firey high-speed-spinny thing directly in front of me..or directly behind me is worrisome enough.....

having it next to me just seems like a terrible idea.

Team OK-Speed
Regularly losing in Class A
Soon to start losing in Class C

Re: airplane powered car, with the correct engine this time.

psychoboy wrote:

while the thought of a firey high-speed-spinny thing directly in front of me..or directly behind me is worrisome enough.....

having it next to me just seems like a terrible idea.

as long as you're not in the plane of rotation you'll be fine. but yeah, right next to me would certainly get me to not push the throttle quite so far in. it's also odd that the exhaust comes out right next to the driver like that. sure the heat won't be going towards him, but the noise!

on a positive note with my engine, i just took the drive assembly apart to get the gear out so i can get a matching spline and it looks like i got lucky, there's still assembly lube everywhere. this turbine is new!

but the fuel control definitely is not. and i'm not 100% sure about the generator so there may be a few other parts that aren't original also. but the bulk of the rotating assembly and the turbine disks are new smile

Re: airplane powered car, with the correct engine this time.

spent about 6 hours today fighting corrosion to get the casale box apart. i was successful but it pretty much wore me out from doing further work on the jet car today:
http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/AirplaneMR2/phase4/IMG_0167.JPG

here's a picture of the inside of the power turbine drivetrain:
http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/AirplaneMR2/phase4/IMG_0169.JPG

that picture has revealed something really interesting. both accessories (governor and oil pump) have a rotation direction marked on them so i decided to follow it. turns out the motor spins the same way as a normal piston engine (counterclockwise from the rear) i also reached in through the exhaust and spun the turbine by hand in the direction indicated by the blades and it confirmed the rotation direction also.

so i'm damn glad i did not continue to work on the casale to T50 adapter plate. that would have been a monumental waste of time.

this means i'll have to do some significant trimming of the transmission tunnel to fit the transmission about 3" higher than stock but otherwise it should be even simpler than i originally thought.

Re: airplane powered car, with the correct engine this time.

I really need to check this section of the forums more often. Marc, I can not wait to see this thing in action, I hope its creation goes much smoother than the MR2 did for you.

Team Final Gear Crew Chief
#138 1997 Pontiac GTP - Supercharged 3800
#42   1999 Ford P71 Crown Vic

Re: airplane powered car, with the correct engine this time.

heck at this rate it won't be much of a build. with this new motor and the fact that it spins the right way i might just need an adapter plate that will bolt the turbine to the transmission and DONE!

heck, i could just swap the rear end gears to 4.10 and make a driveshaft strait from the turbine to the rear end. who needs reverse? it would give me a top speed of 120mph

Re: airplane powered car, with the correct engine this time.

lots of really good reading here about Chrysler's developments: http://www.turbinecar.com/misc/SAE-Turbine/777A.PDF

this is quite interesting:
http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/AirplaneMR2/phase4/turbine%20fuel%20economy.jpg

this gives me pretty good hopes. sure, they had a regenerator, but when you look at the regenerator numbers, they aren't adding that much energy back in:

http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/AirplaneMR2/phase4/ChryslerTempProfile.jpg

even better, when you compare the above chart to the turbine i'm using:
http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/AirplaneMR2/phase4/T50TempAndPressureProfile.jpg

a turbine's efficiency is very directly related to the temperature going into the first stage turbine. and within a few degrees of each-other the numbers are almost all identical except for the regenerator.

so i'm expecting much better than the predicted 2MPG now, perhaps it'll even be close to an actual Lemons car while it's out there. i would just be beside myself if this thing was actually competitive!

88 (edited by Marc 2013-02-04 02:54 AM)

Re: airplane powered car, with the correct engine this time.

i ordered this shaft, i hope i get lucky and it fits: http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/HUB-CI … aft-15V658

otherwise i'll need to get a custom spline machined. it's not a 45degree pressure angle so if it isn't 30 like the above shaft then it's something oddball that i certainly won't be able to get off the shelf.

also, after reading a bunch about the Chrysler turbine car it seems that the noise reduction work will have to be on the intake, not the exhaust. I'll have to find the biggest filter i can and then  make a mount for a half dozen of them so i don't have excessive restriction.

a turbine isn't as susceptible to stuff in the air as a piston motor so i don't need very good filtration. a gauze filter without oil would probably be perfect.

Re: airplane powered car, with the correct engine this time.

why not a cheep turbo filter.....namely a couple stretches of high denier pantyhose on the inlet.

if it does get sucked in, it'll evaporate instantly

Team OK-Speed
Regularly losing in Class A
Soon to start losing in Class C

Re: airplane powered car, with the correct engine this time.

the only reason to get more complicated is because i want the intake to attenuate the 130dB sucking noise a bit. as it is, the airflow is about 1100MPH.

Re: airplane powered car, with the correct engine this time.

Marc wrote:

the only reason to get more complicated is because i want the intake to attenuate the 130dB sucking noise a bit. as it is, the airflow is about 1100MPH.

Use mufflers, less restriction than filters, and designed to reduce noise.

Re: airplane powered car, with the correct engine this time.

Wetbed0 wrote:
Marc wrote:

the only reason to get more complicated is because i want the intake to attenuate the 130dB sucking noise a bit. as it is, the airflow is about 1100MPH.

Use mufflers, less restriction than filters, and designed to reduce noise.

is there anything off the shelf available for this kind of volume? (1100mph on a 7" diameter intake) ?

Re: airplane powered car, with the correct engine this time.

i may be able to make something like this: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6736238.html

Re: airplane powered car, with the correct engine this time.

Marc wrote:
Wetbed0 wrote:
Marc wrote:

the only reason to get more complicated is because i want the intake to attenuate the 130dB sucking noise a bit. as it is, the airflow is about 1100MPH.

Use mufflers, less restriction than filters, and designed to reduce noise.

is there anything off the shelf available for this kind of volume? (1100mph on a 7" diameter intake) ?

1100 mph*5280 feet per mile*(pi*.291(ft)r^2) area /60 min per hour = 25,752 cfm. So dived that by the expansion rate of combustion of roughly 4.2, and you get 6131 cfm. So you need an exhaust for a car that has an intake of 6131 cfm. Probably similar to a large diesel. I can only guaranty the first number is remotely accurate, the second came from the internet.

Re: airplane powered car, with the correct engine this time.

i think the supersonic aspect of things really changes everything. air starts behaving really weird at those speeds.

but, 6131CFM is the intake of a 4000HP motor give or take a couple hundred. and that number checks out based on the mass flow rates given in the actual documents also.

that's asking for a muffler that can deal with 1/2 of this exhaust at full throttle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVXEGul0uRQ

26,000CFM is a metric shit ton of air. keep in mind, a turbine pumps it's cooling air also. not just it's combustion air. that's why it's so much air.

the big thing at the front of this engine bay is the intake: http://i1.8000vueltas.com/2011/12/c12_0603_05z+1963_chrysler_turbine_car+engine.jpg and that thing is less than half the horsepower of my turbine.

Re: airplane powered car, with the correct engine this time.

exemption for intake plumbing? five feet in the air should be above most people's annoyance level.

Team OK-Speed
Regularly losing in Class A
Soon to start losing in Class C

Re: airplane powered car, with the correct engine this time.

there's still assembly lube everywhere. this turbine is new!

but the fuel control definitely is not. and i'm not 100% sure about the generator so there may be a few other parts that aren't original also.

That, sir, is what we in the military refer to as a "parts bitch". As in "We turned that broke-ass drone in to supply for refurb, but the new motor never got installed. Supply took it without the motor. Guess we have a new parts bitch to pull from."

Check it good for missing and mis-installed parts.

Re: airplane powered car, with the correct engine this time.

yeah, thankfully they left off the safety wire on the parts they "reinstalled" so i can go through it all and see.

the radial motor i bought was the same way, one of the heads was of significantly different vintage than the others.

Re: airplane powered car, with the correct engine this time.

*expletive* YEAH!

http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/AirplaneMR2/phase4/IMG_0172.JPG

the shaft fits!

Re: airplane powered car, with the correct engine this time.

Marc wrote:

*expletive* YEAH!
the shaft fits!

Get to yell that often????

12. Gingerman , Heroic Fix award
10/12 Autobahn, 51st overall.
Team Apocalyptic Racing
1978 Ecotec Celica.