Re: Lemons Radio Tech

It does, but the price is still BS. FCC needs to fix that.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

Re: Lemons Radio Tech

TrackGeeks_Chris wrote:

Lets start a thread to discuss how to get a working radio system for your Lemons car.


Tips to minimize interference from other radio users in the area.

There are SOOO many frequencies, just program your own and stay away from default pre-programmed.

Team RicerZX
1980 Datsun 280ZX NA

Re: Lemons Radio Tech

swedishmeatballracing wrote:
TrackGeeks_Chris wrote:

Lets start a thread to discuss how to get a working radio system for your Lemons car.


Tips to minimize interference from other radio users in the area.

There are SOOO many frequencies, just program your own and stay away from default pre-programmed.

Problem is, if someone is using a police/fire/EMT frequency, then the 5-0 will descend upon the race like Thor's Hammer. Before my time, but if memory serves, this happened at Buttonwillow. Someone was on the frequency for the local Sheriff, they showed up in force threatening to shut down the race immediately if it didn't stop.

Can someone provide more details on this or other similar incidents?

25X Loser - Delinquent Racing - '86 Rust-Tite Merkur - 9 years (when do I get to stop?).

104

Re: Lemons Radio Tech

billybobster wrote:
swedishmeatballracing wrote:
TrackGeeks_Chris wrote:

Lets start a thread to discuss how to get a working radio system for your Lemons car.


Tips to minimize interference from other radio users in the area.

There are SOOO many frequencies, just program your own and stay away from default pre-programmed.

Problem is, if someone is using a police/fire/EMT frequency, then the 5-0 will descend upon the race like Thor's Hammer. Before my time, but if memory serves, this happened at Buttonwillow. Someone was on the frequency for the local Sheriff, they showed up in force threatening to shut down the race immediately if it didn't stop.

Can someone provide more details on this or other similar incidents?

IIRC, this has happened only once or twice (I wasn't there, but I remember the hubbub), both times in NorCal, and both times it was teams composed with law-enforcement drivers who had purchased de-commissioned department radios and attempted to use them with their teams without re-programming the radios. Doh!

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

105

Re: Lemons Radio Tech

I tried searching and could not find an answer, appreciate any input. 

For radios I went with the Baofeng UV5 (same as Rugged for half the price).  For headset and PTT I got  http://a.co/gfnEOYc

if it weren't for driver changes, I think this headset/PTT would be fine as is.  However, the conenctor between the headset and the rest of the system has little pins which will be cumbersome during a change and could be a risk for quick exit in emergency. 

I need to put a quick connect and extension in between the headset and the rest of the set up. 

Appreciate any ideas.  Also, not sure what the technical name for the existing connectors is (looks kinda like the old S-Video connection but with 5 pins). 

Thanks.

106 (edited by VKZ24 2017-05-24 04:09 PM)

Re: Lemons Radio Tech

RTF27 wrote:

I tried searching and could not find an answer, appreciate any input. 

For radios I went with the Baofeng UV5 (same as Rugged for half the price).  For headset and PTT I got  http://a.co/gfnEOYc

if it weren't for driver changes, I think this headset/PTT would be fine as is.  However, the conenctor between the headset and the rest of the system has little pins which will be cumbersome during a change and could be a risk for quick exit in emergency. 

I need to put a quick connect and extension in between the headset and the rest of the set up. 

Appreciate any ideas.  Also, not sure what the technical name for the existing connectors is (looks kinda like the old S-Video connection but with 5 pins). 

Thanks.


BTDT about 6 years ago now.  The solution is to contact Troy and get his harness with the NASCAR connector. Many of us here have this setup and it works great. Nerdieracing.com and tell him I sent you.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

107

Re: Lemons Radio Tech

RTF27 wrote:

I tried searching and could not find an answer, appreciate any input. 

For radios I went with the Baofeng UV5 (same as Rugged for half the price).  For headset and PTT I got  http://a.co/gfnEOYc

if it weren't for driver changes, I think this headset/PTT would be fine as is.  However, the conenctor between the headset and the rest of the system has little pins which will be cumbersome during a change and could be a risk for quick exit in emergency. 

I need to put a quick connect and extension in between the headset and the rest of the set up. 

Appreciate any ideas.  Also, not sure what the technical name for the existing connectors is (looks kinda like the old S-Video connection but with 5 pins). 

Thanks.


Are you talking about adding a disconnect between the helmet headset and the car harness, or between the car harness and the radio?

Between the helmet and the car harness, most people use either 3 pin (NASCAR style) or 4 pin (IMSA style) 1/4" plug/jacks, like the ones you see on PA systems, etc. These have "tip", "ring", and "sleeve" connections. These are very robust, quick to connect, and will disconnect by themselves if you forget as you are getting out of the car.

https://www.google.com/search?q=nascar+ … 5669145981

The 5 pin connectors that you mention are XLR-connectors, they come in 3, 4, 5, 6, or 7 pin flavors. These are most often used to connect the radio to the car harness, using a "jumper" that has an XLR on one end and the specific connector that your radio requires on the other. This is useful if you think that you might need to swap in a different brand of radio. We only have 1 type of radio, so I just hard-wired the radio connector into the car harness.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XLR_connector

We Audi Be Faster
'85 Audi Coupe G(in &) T(onic)

108

Re: Lemons Radio Tech

mattp wrote:
TheEngineer wrote:
piper.gras wrote:

With the proper license you can transmit over GMRS frequencies with up to 50W (large fixed stations).  Typical handhelds like this are limited to 5W, which is above the output of the UV-5R (4W), so it's fine to use on GMRS.  You're still supposed to be licensed...the FCC put forward a proposal in 2010 to remove the licensing requirement on all GMRS frequencies, but there wasn't enough push behind it to make it a priority in government, so it stalled.  The FCC seems completely uninterested in going after people using GRMS without a license, but YMMV.

Per the regulations, channels 1-7 are shared between FRS and GMRS and require a license if transmitting at over 1/2W, 1/2W and under they're license free.  Channels 8-14 are FRS only, license free, 1/2W max.  Channels 15-22 are GMRS only, and technically require a license, but in practice that regulation does not seem to be enforced.


Interesting. Everything I had seen was that the UV-5Rs weren't allowed on GRMS at all,  but maybe they meant without a license. Thanks for the correction. We just bought a couple of the UV-5R radios and I've been trying to figure out which license I need to be getting just to be safe. Guess it's that one.

It is because they are not part 95a (and possibly not even FCC) approved.  The specs match up with part 95a though.


mattp is correct - the real reason why the Beofeng radios are illegal for GMRS is that they are not FCC Part 95 certified. Just because a radio meets the Part 95 specs (power, bandwidth, etc) doesn't mean that they are legal to use on any/all frequencies. If you are using FRS or GMRS frequencies, it is required to use Part 95 accepted equipment. Part 95 specifically precludes any radio that has the ability to program frequencies on the front panel, so "wrong" frequency can not be used. Is this really enforced for itinerant use (race weekends at various locations)? Doesn't seem to be. If you made a nuisance of yourself and interfered with others, then you might get tracked down.

The Beofeng radios are perfectly legal to buy and use to RECEIVE any radio transmission on any frequency. They are also legal to transmit/receive on Amateur (ham) frequencies. Hams get a free ride, because by passing the exam, they show that they have the understanding to operate the equipment within the requirements of the FCC rules. In fact, hams are permitted to design/build their own radios and amplifiers.

As others have said many times on this forum, if you are going to use the Beofeng, etc programmable radios, make sure that you understand what frequencies you are using. If you transmit on public safety frequencies, you can be sure that there will be consequences.

The FCC just last week issued a revised set of rules for Part 95 (FRS, GMRS, CB, MURS) operations:

https://www.fcc.gov/document/part-95-report-and-order

We Audi Be Faster
'85 Audi Coupe G(in &) T(onic)

109

Re: Lemons Radio Tech

RSB wrote:
mattp wrote:
TheEngineer wrote:

Interesting. Everything I had seen was that the UV-5Rs weren't allowed on GRMS at all,  but maybe they meant without a license. Thanks for the correction. We just bought a couple of the UV-5R radios and I've been trying to figure out which license I need to be getting just to be safe. Guess it's that one.

It is because they are not part 95a (and possibly not even FCC) approved.  The specs match up with part 95a though.


mattp is correct - the real reason why the Beofeng radios are illegal for GMRS is that they are not FCC Part 95 certified. Just because a radio meets the Part 95 specs (power, bandwidth, etc) doesn't mean that they are legal to use on any/all frequencies. If you are using FRS or GMRS frequencies, it is required to use Part 95 accepted equipment. Part 95 specifically precludes any radio that has the ability to program frequencies on the front panel, so "wrong" frequency can not be used. Is this really enforced for itinerant use (race weekends at various locations)? Doesn't seem to be. If you made a nuisance of yourself and interfered with others, then you might get tracked down.

The Beofeng radios are perfectly legal to buy and use to RECEIVE any radio transmission on any frequency. They are also legal to transmit/receive on Amateur (ham) frequencies. Hams get a free ride, because by passing the exam, they show that they have the understanding to operate the equipment within the requirements of the FCC rules. In fact, hams are permitted to design/build their own radios and amplifiers.

As others have said many times on this forum, if you are going to use the Beofeng, etc programmable radios, make sure that you understand what frequencies you are using. If you transmit on public safety frequencies, you can be sure that there will be consequences.

The FCC just last week issued a revised set of rules for Part 95 (FRS, GMRS, CB, MURS) operations:

https://www.fcc.gov/document/part-95-report-and-order

I seem to recall that this happened twice at Sears Point. One time caused a full course shutdown while everyone had to drive through the pits so TEO could see their radios since the team was using a police freq. I think the team got hit with a "put your camshaft through this hole in the cardboard penalty but they got around it by cutting the cardboard in such a way that they could drive the car through it. Creative bastards.

The second one I thought was because someone was using a frequency reserved for a safety frequency that they "thought" was available. Still caused a tizzy but I don't recall the same level of drama (or it did but our own team issues caused me to lose focus on what was going on outside of our blown up engine)

I could have sworn there might have been a third time this happened at Sears Point but i don't recall any specifics.

Myopic Motorsport's #888 Ceci n'est pas une Citron Thunderbird ("This is not a lemon" but a 1995 tbird w/ 93 V8 swap + shopping cart rear wing + engine mounted frito maker)
2017 Sears Pointless Organizer’s Choice
Frito Making Tbird from 2018 Sears Pointless Engine Heat BBQ - http://goo.gl/csaet4

110

Re: Lemons Radio Tech

My guess is if you happen to be on the wrong frequency (because you didn't know better), it wouldn't be a big deal unless you were yammering on and on like some teams seem to do.  I think during my last race, of which I did three hours each day, and spoke on the radio 6 times, so about once per hour.  I hear some teams talking more than the corner workers.

P.S.
Yes, I know it's illegal to be on a unauthorized frequency.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Lemons Radio Tech

We started using the Zello app with our cell phones at NJMP and for those on the team that used it, it worked well.  Only issue we had was I recommend getting a BlueTooth PTT button for every driver and not just one per car.  They require syncing to the phone which some of our drivers struggled with.

Team Glue Sticks
00 Firebird, 02 X-Type, 93 NX2000, 00 Mazda 626 (Sold)
2016 NJMP Heroic Fix, 2017 NJMP Near Heroic Fix except we can't drive, 2017 Thompson I Got Screwed, 2019 Pitt Heroic Fix

112 (edited by billybobster 2017-05-25 05:44 PM)

Re: Lemons Radio Tech

A tip on the BaoFengs. Some research on the Intertubes revealed the "rubber ducky" antennas that come with them are held in very low regard by the ham radio ops that like the BaoFengs. The consensus choice for a replacement seemed to be the Nagoya NA-701 antenna. We got a set for our handhelds and they definitely improved range and voice clarity. However, beware of the apparently many counterfeits out there. There are even webpages on how to tell the difference. If the price is too good to be true, it is. I got mine on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KB … &psc=1 (an uncompensated endorsement - dammit).

Another tip - please please enable the privacy code feature for your team radios if you are using the GMRS frequencies - BaoFeng or other radios. The "privacy code" is really mainly an "ignore other teams" feature. Which is really good. But if you turn it off, I can hear you and I don't want to. You can also hear me, and you don't want to. At Thunderhill, there was another team very confused because they thought their driver was me reporting our simultaneous wobbly wheel and schitzo automagic transmission problems.

25X Loser - Delinquent Racing - '86 Rust-Tite Merkur - 9 years (when do I get to stop?).

113 (edited by NOPANTSDOUGIE 2017-05-26 05:24 AM)

Re: Lemons Radio Tech

meyers0150 wrote:

We started using the Zello app with our cell phones at NJMP and for those on the team that used it, it worked well.  Only issue we had was I recommend getting a BlueTooth PTT button for every driver and not just one per car.  They require syncing to the phone which some of our drivers struggled with.


We also used zello at njmp  worked flawless with a ptt button on the wheel.  we just left one phone in the car and just connect your headphones to it and good to go.  (Granted we never actually did a driver change because we popped a rod at 90min)  sad  but it should be an issue using a single phone.  the other awesome thing is the whole thing gets saved and you can replay it.  I have the audio of the rod clanking out the motor saved forever smile haha

959 Toyota Tercel   6x Lemons loser

New England Area roll cages send me an email I'm in Central MA

Re: Lemons Radio Tech

meyers0150 wrote:

We started using the Zello app with our cell phones at NJMP and for those on the team that used it, it worked well.  Only issue we had was I recommend getting a BlueTooth PTT button for every driver and not just one per car.  They require syncing to the phone which some of our drivers struggled with.

You should run a phone with a burner sim permanently in the car. One of the Android users on your team has to have 3 or 4 old phones lying around. They seem to go through them like toilet paper.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

Re: Lemons Radio Tech

billybobster wrote:

Another tip - please please enable the privacy code feature for your team radios if you are using the GMRS frequencies - BaoFeng or other radios. The "privacy code" is really mainly an "ignore other teams" feature. Which is really good. But if you turn it off, I can hear you and I don't want to. You can also hear me, and you don't want to. At Thunderhill, there was another team very confused because they thought their driver was me reporting our simultaneous wobbly wheel and schitzo automagic transmission problems.

Don't do this! You'll step all over each other's transmissions if you can't hear when someone else is talking. This is simplex FM not Digital packet trunk whatever magic cellphone whatsis.

There's 22 discrete channels in FRS and GMRS. There's probably 60 or so teams using radios at these events. (Barring the weirdos on C.B.)
You have to learn how to share frequencies out there.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

Re: Lemons Radio Tech

Guildenstern wrote:

Don't do this! You'll step all over each other's transmissions ...

Not if you set the radio to not allow TX when the channel is in use. Our chinesium has that set; it'll beep if you key the mic with the channel busy. (if you have time, you can look at the radio to see if it's receiving - green light) I prefer not having an ear full of everyone else's crap while driving.

Duff Beer Civic (#128) -- 2014 Sebring - Class B (#1 of 7), 2016 Barber - Class B
1981 Jet Electrica 007 [Plymouth Horizon TC3] (#128) -- Mk.1 - Index of Effluency Eco (IOEe) @ 2016 Lemons South Fall, Mk.2 - Judges' Choice @ 2017 'Shine Country Classic, Mk.3 - Index of Effluency @ 2017 Southern Discomfort

Re: Lemons Radio Tech

Is the "Heavy duty mega kit" that is sold in the Lemons store a good kit? Easy to program and maintain?

Re: Lemons Radio Tech

jfbeam wrote:
Guildenstern wrote:

Don't do this! You'll step all over each other's transmissions ...

Not if you set the radio to not allow TX when the channel is in use. Our chinesium has that set; it'll beep if you key the mic with the channel busy. (if you have time, you can look at the radio to see if it's receiving - green light) I prefer not having an ear full of everyone else's crap while driving.

WOW! Now that's some smart shit! Now to get everyone to use it that way......hmmm

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

Re: Lemons Radio Tech

racer49 wrote:

Is the "Heavy duty mega kit" that is sold in the Lemons store a good kit? Easy to program and maintain?

Their rebranded Tera is much less illegal than their rebranded blue Baofeng. for sure. You do have to program it which depends on your skill level I suppose. I find radio manuals to be frigging impenetrable personally. And that's when they aren't translated from Chinese.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

Re: Lemons Radio Tech

Guildenstern wrote:
jfbeam wrote:
Guildenstern wrote:

Don't do this! You'll step all over each other's transmissions ...

Not if you set the radio to not allow TX when the channel is in use. Our chinesium has that set; it'll beep if you key the mic with the channel busy. (if you have time, you can look at the radio to see if it's receiving - green light) I prefer not having an ear full of everyone else's crap while driving.

WOW! Now that's some smart shit! Now to get everyone to use it that way......hmmm

Absolutely. I thought I read the manual in detail but I don't think I saw that. I will set that though. Since our drivers can't see the green light, this will help.

Also, if you have a Baofeng a must have is an open source and in English piece of PC software called CHIRP. Makes programming the radios much much easier. CHIRP also works with a bunch of other radio brands.

25X Loser - Delinquent Racing - '86 Rust-Tite Merkur - 9 years (when do I get to stop?).

121 (edited by Troy 2017-05-29 08:39 PM)

Re: Lemons Radio Tech

VKZ24 wrote:
RTF27 wrote:

I tried searching and could not find an answer, appreciate any input. 

For radios I went with the Baofeng UV5 (same as Rugged for half the price).  For headset and PTT I got  http://a.co/gfnEOYc

if it weren't for driver changes, I think this headset/PTT would be fine as is.  However, the conenctor between the headset and the rest of the system has little pins which will be cumbersome during a change and could be a risk for quick exit in emergency. 

I need to put a quick connect and extension in between the headset and the rest of the set up. 

Appreciate any ideas.  Also, not sure what the technical name for the existing connectors is (looks kinda like the old S-Video connection but with 5 pins). 

Thanks.


BTDT about 6 years ago now.  The solution is to contact Troy and get his harness with the NASCAR connector. Many of us here have this setup and it works great. Nerdieracing.com and tell him I sent you.

Vincent, thanks for the plug.

RTF27, the connectors in your system are Mini-DIN like the old PS2 mice.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-DIN_connector

You can make an adapter but once your get into those systems you will find there is not much wire in them either. A buddy and I refer to the wire as conductive dental floss.

The common 3.5mm TRRS connectors on our cell phones is like a mini-IMSA in that it's a single pin 4 conductor connector which looks like a good option for our comms. The problem I have seen with these and many small connectors like Mini-DIN or Mini-XLRs is the strain relief that holds the wire in the connector is also very small and will not hold much wire. The quality of the connectors is pretty crappy too.

Common 1/4" audio connectors have the largest strain reliefs and accommodations for larger wires, even larger than the Nexus connectors used in IMSA. The larger connectors are also easier to handle with gloves on.

Zello, I have not used it but heard of it. I just made adapters for my friend's kids to use their cell phones while karting. When I tested them I was surprised how much delay there was in our cell phones.

Programming and frequencies, there's been a lot of discussion about that. A ham license is an option. A "proper" license looks like it's about $500 for 10 years and does not guarantee you your own channel. You are supposed to have a license for GMRS too and I know of one team that does that.

We use old Motorola radios and had to pay to have them programmed. Sometimes our light is blinking but we hear nothing which is another team on the same frequency. I do not know how or why they chose the frequencies in our radios but I can not change them myself.

Recording comms: we've been running our comms to our cameras lately which makes our video more interesting.

GoPro Video @ MSR:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faKK4JCKr5A&t=28s

VIRB Video @ MSR:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNolBiIoHx0&t=13s

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

122

Re: Lemons Radio Tech

Troy -

Thanks for the reply - yep, looks like they are mini din.  Sounds like I need your product/expertise.  Once I get the rest of the build sorted I will reach out to upgrade my communications.  Hoping to make Joliet, but have some work to do....

RTF

Re: Lemons Radio Tech

Could we use a cell phone to talk to the driver?

Re: Lemons Radio Tech

You sure can, Your Mileage and reception may vary. But I believe a few teams have a wired headset to a phone as Pit to Car.

The problem you get is hearing the driver well, most phone headsets aren't up for that. And a good motorcycle style helmet bluetooth is as much as a basic radio.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

125 (edited by Troy 2018-06-09 01:08 PM)

Re: Lemons Radio Tech

oops

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z